Republicans are apparently crowning Hillary Clinton as the Democratic nominee in 2016. As such, the debate has begun within the party on how best to attack Mrs. Clinton and whether her husband’s sexual exploits should be a part of the discussion.

Report from Fox News:

Former Bush administration adviser Karl Rove on Sunday cautioned Republicans against a 2016 presidential election strategy that focuses too much on the political history of potential Democratic front-runner Hillary Clinton.

Rove told “Fox News Sunday” he was uncertain whether revisiting Clinton and husband Bill Clinton’s years in the White House would help Republicans win the presidency.

“It may,” said Rove, now a “Fox News” contributor. “But the trouble for Republicans is it’s easier to say what you’re against than what you are for.”

Republicans have tried to knock down a Clinton candidacy essentially since she resigned from her post in February 2013 as secretary of state.

Also on Sunday, 2012 GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney warned against attacking the Clinton political legacy.

“I don’t think Bill Clinton is as relevant as Hillary Clinton,” he told NBC’s “Meet the Press.”

This is not the first time Republicans have been targeted for criticizing something or somebody instead of proposing their own ideas, most recently with ObamaCare.

In other words, both Romney and Rove seem to prefer that potential GOP candidates, like Rand Paul, not refer to the former president as a “sexual predator” on the campaign trail next year.


  1. I agree with both Romney and Rove. Going on and on with her reaction to Bill’s affairs is not very important compared to more other events events such as:
    1) Hilary’s job performance on Benghazi both before and after the attacks and then lying about it. Have we had enough of lies (Why won’t anyone call it for what it is? Maybe that’s why so many do it is because no one will call it for what it is?) with this president and many other political figures
    2) Hilary’s job performance as Secretary of State. What did she accomplish or not?
    3) Hilary’s job performance as Senator. What did she accomplish or not?
    4) Hilary’s lie about being fired on while over seas.
    5) How about “Whitewater.”
    6) Her old connections to socialist causes.
    7) Her work on Hilary Care and comparison to Obama Care.
    I’m sure there are others

    • evelyn123456 — spot on!

      *Whitewater* is were it all began — so must be #1 for the Clinton crookedness exposure!

      The rest is just BONUS!

      Not chasing office, but trying to escape PRISON…should be Hiltlery Clinton’s goal!

    • evelyn / oblivious;

      If you are going to go back in time why not the “Rosewood” law files that she hid in the closet in the White House.

      Or better yet why not the spelling test she only got a B- on in the third grade?

      • bobby — when adults speak, children are quiet

        so mind your P’s and Q’s and go play with your little friend, kooky goethe

        • Oblivious: You’re such a moron.

          If you had any reading comprehension, you’d realize that Bob was fully agreeing with you, and adding ammunition to YOUR argument.

  2. Nate: I think Rove is “protesting too much,” that is, he wants attacks on Bill to continue, but he doesn’t want it to look that way.

    Politics since Rove has been about subterfuge, not direct attack. I’m not saying only the GOP does it. I’m saying you can’t take anyone at his word anymore–you have to think about what is going on under the surface.

    If this were really about Hillary, they would be risking a backlash. After all, a lot of American women felt sorry for Hillary, and a lot more thought she was admirable for “standing by her man.” Like it or not, it actually added to her standing in the Senate and at State, because she had already shown her metal.

    By being dressed up as an attack on Hillary, they’re hiding what it really is–an attack on Bill–the Democratic Party’s most popular, powerful, and communicative force. Even Billy, here, liked him.

    If they had made it an attack directly on Bill, people would yawn and say, “old news, move on.” But by portraying it as an attack on Hillary, it’s a “new” angle, so it has legs.

    This is a “left-handed” attack to neutralize Bill, regardless of whom the Dems pick.

  3. Oh! forget about the Clinton’s. Let’s concentrate on we are going to do to make things better in this world.

  4. First off I can’t understand why after his record of failure at picking winning candidates Fox News still gives this jabbroni air time! The below article entitled “Donations To Karl Rove’s Groups Decline 98% After Declaring War on Tea Party” shows how his opinion among republicans has fallen.

    Secondly on Secretary Clinton the GOP hasn’t seemed to attach any blame to her for what went wrong in Benghazi THUS FAR so I don’t doubt that if they harp on it into the election cycle it would do more harm than good. They had their opportunity and they dropped the ball thus the American public ignored them. The same goes for “Whitewater and her B.S. story about taking fire while overseas. As much as she was involved with “Hillarycare” back in the 90’s she can claim little connection to Obamacare. She was Secretary of State which has nothing to do with Obamacare. It’s old news drop it or look like a fool AND VALIDATE THE IDEA OF REPUBLICAN WAR ON WOMEN. You want to connect the dots harp on her job performance as Secretary of State and how American prestige fell and foreign threats increased due to her and President Obama’s policies.


  5. If your approach to Conservative governing would justify a great many of the “Great Society ” programs it’s a sign you took a wrong turn. This where I and Mr. Rove’s “Compassionate Conservatism take different roads. Mr. Rove by declaring war on the Tea Party lost all credibility and is simply out to advance his own agenda through his different establishment PAC’s. In the last two presidential elections the establishment portion of the party nominated a liberal republican currently supporting President Obama’s amnesty to illegal aliens and a liberal republican currently being blamed by Obama supporters for inspiring Obamacare. It’s fantasy candidate for 2016 had spent his time hugging President Obama and then signed off on tuition for illegal aliens. Until a few weeks ago he was being praised as the “ULTIMATE GOOD REPUBLICAN” BY THE MSM.

    Now let me make myself clear on this. Senator Rand Paul is as much making a mistake by taking the position of attacking President Clinton to get to Secretary Clinton as the GOP. Secretary Clinton is subject to attacks on her record or she “HAS GOT NAME BUT NOT GAME” as they say on the street. For example another tact to take would be to question who in the administration authorized the NSA surveillance both domestically and foreign and her stance on the same.

    Use your head GOP or you will keep the alienation among the party and doom your 2016 chances.

    • Bob:

      It amazes me that people don’t seem to know that Karl Rove doesn’t give a crap about you or your ideals.

      All he cares about is wielding power. He couldn’t win on his own, so he tries to be the puppet-master. That’s safer, anyway, because if you lose, you can blame it on the candidate.

      He’s as bad as Dick Morris. He was Bill Clinton’s buddy–as long as he got his fat paycheck.

  6. Clinton’s personna is not much different than Obama’s – except she doesn’t want to destroy us just socialize us and get rid of capitalism. She is as bad a liar as BHO, she distorts the truth and is as opaque as BHO. Go further back on her actions and performance than any press will on a Republican candidate. Focus on Benghazi and the many failures whether ordered by Obama or not, As Secretary of State Clinton was BHO’s “bitch” without an original thought of her own. She will be summarily influenced by Bill Clinton and male staff.

    Is this really who the Women and Men voters want for there first Female President???? Or even worse, seeing a new POTUS that will see how close the previous Party and POTUS took us to Monarchy and decides she can finish the job!!!!

    Do we really want to slide towards bankruptcy and unearned entitlements that makes a country a higher percentage of takers versus givers???

    Pubs in addition should gameplan the future of the U.S. without disclosing too many actual paths if the Republicans are elected. Just focusing on the core beliefs and missions of the TeaParty and Libertarians should be enough.

    Regardless, unless the Republicans can buy the Press, it is all for naught. And the MSM has already chosen sides!!

    • samreusser — excellent, well thought out post.

      With these qualifications:

      1) The Press is OWNED by the ones that want A One World Government (where the USA is just another province they own), so Real Republicans have ZERO chance of owning even the minutest part of Main Stream Media.

      2) Republicans are not ALL Republicans — only the Tea Party and the Libertarians are what the TRUE meaning of being a Republican stands for!

      Our only chance to stand up against the most powerful ENEMY of We The People — the BRAINWASHING INTERNATIONALLY OWNED AND CONTROLLED MEDIA — is via the Internet (before that is taken over — even Nate is now censoring posts, imagine if this becomes a “law”), talking to your friends and neighbors and making The Grassroots Movement UNSTOPPABLE!

      These Monsters, that now occupy Washington DC, must be exposed on their lies and criminal behavior on ALL Fronts! They are so blindly engrossed with their power, that they fail to see the destructive path they’ve taken.

      They are so arrogant and ignorant in their BELIEF that they can build a DHS Army of a hundred thousand armed brownshirts, and militarize our local police forces with a few tank-like intimidating vehicles, THAT IF THINGS GO BAD FOR THEM, The American Citizens will give up their freedoms to them, and lay down their arms in SURRENDER!

      The IDIOCY of all of this is that Conceal Carry Gun Permits have climbed to the highest level ever — with 6.8 million as of last year and climbing even more this year (that means that nearly 7 million Americans legally carry a concealed weapon — the largest standing army is China…with about 2.5 million; followed by USA with about 1.5 million).

      This means that for every armed solder in China and USA combined, there are nearly 2 more American Citizens that are armed (and have their hand guns concealed)!

      Add on top of this that there are over 110,000,000 Americans that own rifles, revolvers and hand guns (and this number is also climbing at an astonishing rate)! This makes the AMERICAN PEOPLE the LARGEST Army OF ARMED FREE CITIZENS in the world !!!

      Therefore, is very scary where the Dems under Obama, and the possibility of another Dem finishing his job, are leading to ….

    • Bob: I wonder if we have outgrown clowns. When my daughter was young, we went to a department store that had a clown roving the store to “entertain.” Scared my daughter, who wasn’t expecting this stranger to get in-her-face with aggressive actions. After that, my ex would tell her, “you’d better behave or the clown will get you.” (My ex and I disagreed about child-rearing.)

      Have you ever noticed how much like a clown “Flo,” the Progressive spokeswoman, is? She has a pasty face with dark, bushy eyebrows, dark eye makeup, and shockingly red lips. She’s aggressively “friendly,” with exaggerated gestures, and the white smock just emphasizes her makeup. She would have scared my daughter.

      Apologies for going off-topic.

      • Clowns are boring now for kids. There are so many more entertainment options. Clowns are associated with the circus, which is a dying form of entertainment.

        • Bob:


          We will pretend that you did not confuse R2D2 with C3PO.

          Anyway, I dunno. C3PO sounded more British–and anxious; while the Gecko sounds Australian–and self-assured.

  7. The real political war currently is the one between the Tea Party and their Republican counterparts. Senator Cruz told radio host Mark Levin: ““In the 13 months I’ve been in the Senate it has become apparent to me the single thing that Republican politicians hate and fear the most, and that is when they’re forced to tell the truth. It makes their heads explode”. “They raised the debt ceiling, but they wanted to be able to tell what they view as their foolish, gullible constituents back home they didn’t do it.” Now, that is some plain talk!

    Rand Paul has cast his lot with Mitch McConnell by endorsing him. Right now Rand Paul leads Ted Cruz in polls of GOP voters. Ted Cruz refuses to support Texas colleague Senator John Cornyn, who is facing a tea party primary challenger, Steve Stockman.

    Right now, Texans don’t give a hoot about Bill Clinton’s indiscretions or Hillary’s pant suits or Rand Paul being a plagiarist. Ted Cruz has center stage.

    • Tess: Rand Paul is the ultimate politician. He will say anything to anybody to get ahead. He’s amazing in his ability to be on every side of every issue.

      Maybe that’s what we need to get Washington to work again, but conservatives should not be surprised if he turns on them when it suits his purpose.

      • Goethe…the post above was actually an expression of my bitterness at the actions of many people in my state. None of the men spoken of will get my vote. (Bill Clinton is the exception but he isn’t running).

  8. It should be very easy to eliminate the chance of the Clintons slithering back into the White House. Just broadcast their depraved record again before the electorate and no one in their right mind would vote for that proposed disaster! You’ve got Slck Willy Bill who was known for endless affairs, even one with a girl young enough to be his daughter and about whom he perjured himself, for which he was impeached and lost his law license for a time and you have Hill who as secretary of state will forever be known after the treason at Bengjhazi for her heartless comment “What difference at this point does it make?” after our ambassador to Libya and 3 troops were left to be ambushed and murdered in cold blood despite having begged for reinforcements several times before and during the attack, and despite the fact that those who tried to come in to back them up were told to stand down, leaving those 4 men like sitting ducks to be brutally murdered without the needed support provided. Getting further into the lack of character issue (which most voters do want in any President we elect), as they left the White House at the end of Bill’s second term, they even tried to get away with sticky fingers swiping some of the White House antiques to boot and messages left on the people’s house answering machine should have been censored according to sources who became aware of that disgrace at the time of their departure. Does anyone really want to see that family’s disgraceful behavior a constant on the evening news for yet another 4 or more years? Heck NO! All that the GOP has to do is present the honest record and Ted Cruz should get the landslide to become our first American President of Hispanic descent. Run, Ted, RUN!

  9. Continuing on the theme of the clowns we have representing us in Washington. Peggy Noonan wrote a piece yesterday about the Netflex Show “House Of Cards”. As many of you probably know it’s based on the British series from the 1980’s and 90’s and is about this leader in Congress(Parliament) who will do anything including murder to advance his career. Kevin Spacey stars in the American version and Ian Richardson stared in the U.K. version.

    Well some of our elected officials thought it would be a hip/ smart move to do quick little quotes from the show while sitting at their desk in a commercial for the show. What comes off may seem cute to the low information voters but I personally find it as an elitist smug attitude toward the American voters. As Ms. Noonan writes “House of Cards does nothing to enhance Washington’s reputation. It enforces the idea that the Capital has no room for clean people. Why would powerful members of Congress align with that message?” A link is provided in the article to view the commercial.

    • Bob: I went to the site to read the article, and then to the link, to see the actual promotion.

      First of all, Noonan’s supercilious sputtering is the essence of the pompous elite looking down her nose at others. She is, of course, devoid of humor–and incapable of understanding it.

      You’d have to watch House of Cards to understand why she is upset. Kevin Spacey portrays a Democrat from the South (what??) who is the majority (what???) whip, who wields power and slimes around with other Democratic supporters and constituencies who are as despicable as he is.

      The real reason Noonan is upset is that FOUR of the six congresspersons who are in the show’s promo are Republicans, and she’s afraid that the show’s slime might stick to them.

  10. When I read Peggy Noonan, instantly I think of her “Boss” and Editor in Chief, Rupert Murdock, the Australian/Englishman, who had the audacity to tap the Queen’s telephones, along with those of celebrities and politicians. Then he printed their secrets in his newspapers, the News of the World, The Sun, and The Times. This man now owns The Wall Street Journal,Twentieth Century Fox, HarperCollins Publishing, all of the Fox TV channels (news, movies, sports). I found Ms Noonan’s article to be a hatchet piece..beneath her intelligence. Peggy Noonan served Ronald Reagan brillantly as his formidable speechwriter and advisor. House of Cards is, after all, just a fictional TV show. The only question I had about the show was: did Kevin Spacey (as Underwood) base his performance on Dick Cheney, Tom DeLay or Harry Reid.

    • Tess: I watched a few episodes of House of Cards. I thought it was totally bizarre that the main character is a Democrat from the South. Might as well have made him from the moon.

      As far as appearance, I thought they seemed to try to make him look exactly like my own US Rep–Fred Upton. In fact, They even used his initials–Frank Underwood.

      Funny thing about Fred Upton. If you write him a letter, the way he signs his reply depends on whether he likes your letter. If he likes it, he signs off as “Fred.” If he doesn’t, he signs off — “F.U.” Coincidence? I don’t think so.

  11. Goethe/Tess:

    Me thinks you both are attempting to read to much into this series. It is what it is….a series about the underside of politics and power that corrupts it. It has nothing to do with southern Democrats nor Rupert Murdoch, Tom DeLay, Harry Reid or Dick Chaney but is based on a British series by the same name from the 1980’s and 90’s who’s main characters name is FRANCIS URQUHART hence the F.U. Sorry Goethe !

    LOL……First your psychobabble about Flo from “Progressive” insurance now this! Put your little volume of Sigmund Freud away and climb down from your sofa. There is no hidden meaning and the only arrogance is the pompus arrogance from our smug elected officials lowering the American publics opinion of Congress even further.

    Hmmm……or perhaps you were correct in your opinion the other day Goethe? Maybe you’re upset because Kevin Spacey portrayal of a “slime Democrat and his Democrat supporters” hits close to home at your beliefs?

    • “Bob and Flo, sitting in a tree, k-i-s-s-i-n-g.” Har. Didn’t know you cared.

      It ain’t “psychobabble.” I worked in advertising for decades. They use archetypes to manipulate you. Sometimes even use uniforms or other blatant images. More often, subliminal references to mother, father, lover, rebel, etc. If the advertiser can put an image in your head, the message can slip right in.

      In this case, we see the “Flo” image, with her garish makeup and exaggerated mannerisms, and our “child within” is distracted while the message is implanted.

    • Bob:

      Regarding the Peggy Noonan article, you have to admit that she is the one who is reading into it with HER psychobabble (and self-righteous humor deficiency).

      The House of Cards promo was just an example of people liking stories about their profession. You know what lawyers love? Lawyer jokes!! Same thing here.

      And it’s not new. They did the same sort of thing with West Wing. And they were just quoting lines (all of which were flattering to their image).

      I’ll tell you what did bother me–movies in which the senator or representative portrays themselves on screen. For instance, in the movie, “Dave,” Kevin Klein is the president and they quote politicians on-screen about him. It was no big deal, but I was uncomfortable with that portrayal, because they were not just admiring the show, they were part of it.

  12. Goethe/Tess:

    I realize you both would like to see the fanciful, idealistic version of a Democrat White House as was portrayed in the television series “West Wing”. But the reality of it is Beau Willimon who is the man in charge of the American version of “House of Cards” worked on the campaigns of Hillary Clinton, Bill Bradley and Howard Dean so it is hardly a right wing political hack job being done here.

    As you are aware the approval rating for Congress last November was at an all time low of 9%. The purpose of the Peggy Noonan piece and my original post wasn’t to defend or humiliate either party but to point out that members of Congress are only confirming the cynical view that the American public has that they are venal, petty, and corrupt by doing these commercials . This tact may provide them with a temporary badge of membership in the Hollywood elite or make them feel relevant but it does neither the country nor Congress any good.

    But then as my Dad always said “If you aren’t catching flak your not over the target.”

    • Bob:


      I didn’t say ANYTHING against House of Cards, except that it is so unrealistic that (1) a southerner with power would be a Democrat–and that (2) the Democrats control the House. I don’t think that’s going to happen in the foreseeable future, certainly not before 2022 or 2024 at the earliest, if ever.

      And for you to interpret my comment that it was about a sleazeball Democrat and his sleazeball Democratic friends as somehow pro-Democrat is likewise bizarre.

      I do, however, repeat that the Noonan article is disingenuous and ridiculous. You just said that Congress’ approval rating is 9%–so do you really believe having a few congresspeople getting a little good-natured face-time is going to hurt?

      My guess is that if they took a poll, people would say it was pretty cool that they could laugh at themselves in this way. Again, Noonan’s problem is a pathetic lack of humor and a bloated sense of self-importance.

  13. Goethe:

    YES I do think it is going to do more harm than good ! My guess is if they took your poll people would just shake their heads and say they aren’t surprised by the arrogance of those politicians.

    Obviously we agree that we disagree here. I’ll keep my flak jacket on for a while yet however ! Good talking to you !

    • Bob:

      I think Noonan was just looking for a topic for an article and couldn’t come up with anything worthy on that day, and I repeat that her real problem was that 2/3 of the commenters were Republicans and that offended her dainty sensibilities.

      BS–As they say, “there is no such thing as bad publicity.” And when your approval rating is 9%, you really can’t do anything to make matters worse.

      In this case, all the six politicians were shown in a flattering light, looking very professional, saying good things. My guess is that you did NOT even go to the site to see the actual promo, didja? Didja?

      Here are the comments:
      (1) Won’t make decisions in the middle of the night,
      (2) Have no patience with useless things,
      (3) Have zero tolerance for betrayal,
      (4) You get power by being with power,
      (5) You do big jobs one small step at a time,
      (6) Promises are a problem when situations change.

      Tell me HOW these messages detract from one’s image. AND, if you condemned the promo without even looking at it, I take back my forgiveness for your confusing R2D2 with C3PO.

  14. Geothe:


    Another piece of your twisted logic is “When you are at 9% you can’t do anything to make matters worse.” DUH? “FLATTERING LIGHT”? HARDLY! So why not try and improve your image instead UNLESS YOU ARE AN ARROGENT S.O.B. and don’t give a damn what the public perception is.

    Finally YES I DID WATCH THE COMMERCIAL. I don’t comment on issues without getting background on what I’m talking about. I find knowing background in politics, history current events etc. is more helpful in life than knowing the difference between R2D2 and C3PO.

    • Bob: Don’t tell me you have never heard the expression, “there’s no such thing as bad publicity.” Or the attendant irony.

      This promo doesn’t even say, “we like the show.” It just picks some flattering lines for them to say. These segments could be lifted to use in their next campaign!!

      The idea that they look “arrogant” is a Noonan fantasy on a “slow news” day. Just the opposite. They look self-effacing–just the opposite of arrogant, which Noonan can’t get. We should buy her a Funk & Wagnall’s.

      The very first line of her article says, “Not to be a scold or humorless.” Well, duh. If someone says that, you KNOW they are going to scold and be totally humorless–and questionably judgmental.

      It’s like when someone says, “To make a long story short.” Nobody says that unless it’s already too long, and they see the listener’s eyes glaze over. It’s also like when someone says, “must confess to some shadenfreude.” That doesn’t mean he doesn’t feel it–it means he’s embarrassed to admit it.

      Likewise, Noonan KNEW she was being a prig and a dingbat when she wrote it, and was hoping by saying “not to be” would prevent people from pointing it out.

    • Bob…Richard Nixon didn’t resign because of bad publicity. Nixon resigned because he was guilty and as hard as he tried couldn’t find anyone to step up and take the blame for him. The fact that Richard Nixon had one of the best foreign policies of any US President wasn’t enough to save him. Don’t know which Congressmen you are referring to so can’t comment. Which “ARROGENT S.O.B. and don’t give a damn” politician are you speaking of? There are several that fit this description.

      Beau Willimon not only worked on the Howard Dean campaign, he told much of it’s story in the George Clooney directed film, The Ides of March. He gives thanks to a friend who had been in the ”inner sanctum” of the campaign and slipped him ”information way above my pay grade”.

      If you think Rupert Murdock had nothing to do with the story of the original House of Cards written by Michael Dobbs, you missed something. Murdoch’s tabloid The Sun, which boasted a circulation of 11 million, helped Margaret Thatcher win her three successive terms in office. The relationship between Murdoch and Thatcher was symbiotic. Rupert Murdoch’s newspapers offered their unwavering support while Margaret Thatcher dismantled pro-union laws and looked the other way on anti-trust violating news acquisitions. Sir Michael Dobbs was with Margaret Thatcher when she took her first steps into Downing Street as Prime Minister, and he was there with John Major when he was kicked out. This is the basis for the first House of Cards. Sir Michael Dobbs is an executive producer and writer on the present House of Cards.

  15. Goethe;

    Only a person who was involved in advertising for decades would spout the cliché “There is no such thing as bad publicity”.

    The politicians involved don’t have to say “we like the show” it implies it by them giving their permission for their appearance in the commercial.

    For decades the American public have passed off mediocrity in government for the bureaucracy that goes along with it . Saying “whatever” to every new government expansion of “shovel ready jobs” and then finding out there isn’t any. To government workers saying “Good enough for government work” and not being able to fire them for shaddy work because of a strong union. Well when then you get fired because of ill conceived government programs and the government insist it’s giving you the opportunity to switch jobs you know the government is peeing on your boots and telling you it’s raining.

    Look if you want spin it so it’s believable to you ….fine go ahead. Obviously we agree that we disagree here.

    • Bob:

      Dude. . .

      Google “There’s no such thing as bad publicity,” and you’ll get two MILLION, four HUNDRED, and fifty THOUSAND links in 36/100 of a second. It has been attributed to PT Barnum and others, so it’s not new, and it’s not about advertising.

      I guess we’re also disagreeing on what the real problem is. To me, the problem is all the play acting, and pretending to know what “the American People want,” and claiming “Shock, shock that there’s gambling going on in here.” It’s about the pomposity and falsehood and needless hostility.

      To me, it is refreshing to have some of these guys act a little less holier-than-thou, showing some glimmer of humor, and trying to take their royal self a little less seriously.

      Oh, and that’s another thing I meant to mention about the Noonan article. I am SO sick of writers and politicians insulting the intelligence of the public. Noonan is assuming that the public will make all kinds of absurd twists to come to the conclusion that this is a bad thing–as if we don’t see what it really is–just having a lark, while also having excellent lighting and great lines to say. People are just not as stupid as she thinks.

      Noonan is the one who insulted us.

  16. Goethe;

    Why doesn’t it surprise me that members of the left find it refreshing to have your elected officials make joke of their office and take the public for fools? Democratic Presidents Clinton and Obama would fit right into what you consider a Presidential job description then. President Carter may have been an incompetent but at least he took his office seriously.


    In your post of 19th February @10:52 PM you state “House of Cards is after all a fictional show” to which I concur and that has little to do in regard to the original discussion. Now you seem to have come to some enlighten thought that it is based on Rupert Murdock. You seem to be basing this on your bias toward his right wing beliefs and a vague connecting of dots between him and Peggy Noonan. Basing a character on Mr. Murdock has no relevance to our elected officials behavior which is what we were discussing. Which shall it be?

    I must be over the target Dad !

    • Bob: It’s not about left or right. In fact, Noonan was mostly complaining about Republicans, since it was mostly GOPers who were in the House of Cards promo (which I still say makes them look very formidable).

      OK Mr. Humor Challenged, tell me what you think of this:

      The 2004 White House Correspondents’ dinner, in which Bush joked about needing flash cards to remember the names of the foreign leaders–and then showed slides of him looking around the White House for the missing WMD’s?

      Did that attempt at self-deprecating humor bring down Western Civilization as we know it?

    • Bob…This is how you opened this discussion: “Continuing on the theme of the clowns we have representing us in Washington. Peggy Noonan wrote a piece yesterday about the Netflex Show “House Of Cards”. As many of you probably know it’s based on the British series from the 1980’s and 90’s and is about this leader in Congress(Parliament) who will do anything including murder to advance his career. Kevin Spacey stars in the American version and Ian Richardson stared in the U.K. version”.

      When you wrote of the U.K. version you left the door open for me to write on Rupert Murdock . The reason being that he and Margaret Thacher are the people the original playwright based his play on. Plus Rupert Murdock is the employer of Peggy Noonan, owning the Wall Street Journal that carried her revue.

      You wrote of Kevin Spacey starring in the American version. This assuredly gave me the liberty to wonder if he channeled Dick Cheney, Tom DeLay, or Harry Reid in his acting.

      Then you wrote to me “Basing a character on Mr. Murdock has no relevance to our elected officials behavior which is what we were discussing”. Well, you had already said our officials representing us in Washington were clowns so really what could I add to that.

      Lastly, you ask “Which shall it be?” Which…about what? Perhaps you should ask your Dad.

      • Tess;

        Just by mentioning the word U.K. you can stretch the conversation into Rupert Murdock eh? AMAZING TALENT?

        THEN you can equate Kevin Spacey with Dick Chaney, Tom Delay and Harry Reid…….OF COURSE WHO WOULDN’T CONNECT THEM ALL TOGETHER??????

        LASTLY….” WHICH SHALL IT BE A FICTIONAL SHOW AS YOU SAY OR BASED ON RUPERT MURDOCK” You describe it as both and can’t seem to make up your mind what exactly “House of Cards” is.

        Perhaps we should ask a Ouija board when we have a conversation with you BECAUSE YOU SEEM TO DEAL IN THE 9 DEGREES OF SEPERATION THEORY. Either that or you couldn’t find anything in your favorite source “Wikipedia” that you could copy.

        • Bob…take a breather and maybe go to your Ouija board or play the Oracle of Bacon.

          If you “mention” you have put a subject on the table.

          I didnot not equate Kevin Spacey with Dick Cheney, Tom DeLay, and Harry Reid. I used the word “channeled”, Did he use their worst traits as his basis for playing the role.

          All fictional stories are based on something or someone. The original House of Cards was based on the activities of Rupert Murdock and Margaret Thacker. The writer didnot use the true identity of his characters so it is regarded as fictional. Willie Nelson is the only one I know that can pull lyrics (words) out of the air.

          If you found anything in my posts copied from Wikipedia…hurry and post it. It isn’t nice to accuse, without proof.

  17. Goethe;

    You’re correct it’s not about left or right! Not that it matters but I don’t recall Ms. Noonan specifying which party she was writing about but if they were republicans I find it odd you should be defending their antics.

    Are we really going to go through a series of comedy skits to find out which ones I find humorous? Kind of childish don’t you think?

    • Bob:

      The problem is that you don’t seem to find anything humorous these days. You’ve been hysterical in your responses to Tess, and you couldn’t even see any humor in my C3PO comment to you.

      The old Bob would have said something like, “Are you sure? I thought the tall robot was named Mr. Spock! ;-)”

      Take a day off, dude. You and Godfrey otta go have a drink or something.

      • Goethe /Tess:

        If all opinions are equal how come a liberal who disagrees with a conservative is opened minded but a conservative who disagrees with a liberal should chill out?

        The left doesn’t want a debate they want a consensus based on manufactured intelligence. This consensus usually takes the form of a commonly accepted opinion which is a badge of membership which lets them into the tribe. Those that want to be relevant go along with this group think. It’s an extension of liberals supposedly thinking outside the box by climbing into it and pulling the flaps shut behind you.

        This conversation has now gone well beyond just the original topic and is now into psychobabble and close to name calling. Perhaps we should end it before we get to that point?

        • Bob: It was not a left-right discussion, unless you’re on the left. I was defending the four Republicans from Noonan’s silly preaching.

          But what you don’t realize is that people on the left say EXACTLY what the right says about them–that the other side is unfair, closed-minded, regimented, unthinking, etc., etc., etc.

          I’m sick of the whining from both “tribes.”

  18. I just saw an interesting article that adds to this discussion. Our question was why people are attacking Bill Clinton, instead of Hillary. My theory was that it was because Bill is the most powerful Democrat in the country, and they want to neutralize him.

    But now, I read that it was also internal Virginia politics. Former Clinton associate, State Alison Lundergan Grimes is running against Mitch McConnell–and Rand Paul is attacking Bill Clinton in order to support McConnell. [BC also helped old pal, Terry McAuliffe, become governor there.]

    It’s a smart move by Rand, who is trying to hold onto his dad’s libertarian constituency, but looking for ways to ingratiate himself with the establishment.

    In this case, McConnell is being challenged by Matt Bevin, of the Tea Party. By focusing on Clinton, Rand is also distracting attention from Bevin.

    • Goethe:

      Sen. McConnell and Sen. Paul are from Kentucky not Virginia.

      Terry McAuliffe is our governor in Virginia however.

      • Bob:


        I was reading pretty fast this morning. Thanks for the correction. I think my brain froze. It’s gonna be 6-below here again tonight…

  19. Bob…A pleasantry to you. Texas is where I live and the wind does howl and the sand does blow but we haven’t seen 6-below yet. We do know how to curl up with some good bourbon and a blazing fire. After all those years of Old Turkey and White Lightening, Texas now has two distilleries that produce finer grades of bourbon. I have lost count of all the wineries that have been developed in Texas but it has been very good for our economy.

    • Tess:

      I am familiar with your blowing Texas sands having spent 4 months at Amarillo in winter. Miles and miles of nothing but miles and miles as I remember it.

      We seem to be over run with wineries here in Virginia also. What is the brand name of those bourbons …….just in case I am in need of some medicine after a Texas snake bite mind you?

      take care………………..

      • Bob – the Panhandle of West Texas – the only place I know where you can be shoe leather deep in mud and have have 20 knot wind blow sand and dirt in your face. I spent 10 years there between May and August 1963,in Plainview. 44.2 mi NW to the holy land (Nazerath) for beer or 44.3 due to Lubbock. We literally had coolers everywhere to have enough beverages on hand to make it through the day.

        • Sam…you forgot to mention all those wonderful pump jacks everywhere. Were you visiting, working or in the service? The panhandle is not usually a wet area but Panhandle winds will sift red dirt into you eyes any day of the week. I was reared below that area. Don’t understand the need for all the coolers and beverages. Plainview is not in our heat belt.

          • Tess – I was inbetween active duty tours working for GAC Finance chasing “slows”. it was never under 80deg and usually near 100 – window swamp a/c’s ran day & nite. You didn’t want to make daily runs to the holy land so two people would go fill a pickup bed with Longhorn or Bud – it abso-lute-ly replaced water and coke. All day on dirt roads to farms and small homes to collect a minimum of $5 within 90 days so we didn’t have to charge ’em off. irrigation and rain created mud and i never could open my eyes enuff to see the color of the grit and sand. Four months was the max I could take – i was an outta place ‘damn yankee’. Got to know a phone operator and every time I would call for a phone number, she’d say, there’s that GAC Yankee again.

            It was in Plainview that I learned that Texans talk on the surface has zero to do with what they say and feel inside.

            • Bob – In the 70’s, i was at Dallas NAS off and on and found it easiest there to just drink at the CPO or O club – even then, butt-ugly Long neck Lone-Star. It made me think of a very cut & weak Sam Miguel – new boots coming to the Philippines. The Good San Miguel ran about 14 to 15%, I’m. sure it was made with Binjo Ditch and you could evacuate through the eye of a needle at 10paces the next morn!

            • Bob/Sam…that was some intentional nasty reviews. Well, at least, Matthew McConaughey and Mark Cuban still drink Lone Star. Maybe you two should have drank more from the Binjo Ditch..

            • Tess – McConaughey was born and raised in TX – still doesn’t know any better – Cuban better say he drinks Lonestar even though he bis from Samuel Adams country.

              The ‘Binjo ditch’ remark is an old military joke (maybe still is) meaning we would drink anything local and cheap like San Miguel, Tiger, 33, TsingTao, Asahi, or Kirin. Australia like Canada a whole different story – THEY KNOW TO MAKE AND DRINK GOOD BEERS! AND CHEAP!

            • Sam…Mark Cuban may have been born in Pennsylvania but he will tell you, he is a Texan. He came to Texas in 1981, broke and hungry. By 1990 he was a millionaire…before 2000 he was a billionaire. Yet it is not uncommon, to see him on the streets of downtown Dallas in a pair of jeans and a T-shirt.

  20. Bob… The Garrison Brothers only makes one spirit — bourbon — but it is one of the best…Texas Straight is produced in Hye,Texas, just west of Austin and it’s one of the state’s most sought-after spirits. Garrison also produces Texas Opus, a white dog whiskey, and has plans for a high-proof bourbon, Hye Rye. Unfortunately, they are only sold in Texas. Balcones Distilling in Waco. has Balcones Rumble distilled from honey, mission figs and turbinado sugar; and Baby Blue, a whiskey made from Hopi blue corn meal. Haven’t had the courage to taste the last two. I understand there are a couple more trying to get started. Texas has long produced tequila and rum and several beers. Some of the beers are beginning to be sold out of state. Lots of spirits….lots of Texans.

  21. We’ve been talking about being too strident and not having a sense of humor. It reminded me of a great quote from the movie, Dr. Zhivago.

    Pasha is a dedicated Bolshevic, who truly wants what he thinks is good for “the people”–and he works very hard at it. In fact, he ends up giving up a life with JULIE CHRISTIE to go off and do battle. Amazing.

    In one scene, Pasha goes to the corrupt Komarovsky, to ask for Lara’s (Christie) hand in marriage. [He doesn’t know that Komarovsky has been having his way with Lara.] Komarovsky sizes up Pasha and after Pasha leaves, Komarovsky tells Lara the following:

    “There are two kinds of men; and only two. That young man is one kind. He is ‘highminded.’ He is ‘pure.” He is the kind of man the world pretends to look up to, and in fact, despises. What is more, he is the kind of man who breeds unhappiness. Particularly in women. There is another kind of man: NOT highminded, NOT pure, but alive.”

    I’ve always thought that was a great line about zealontry:
    “the world pretends to look up to, but in fact, despises.”

    • Goethe – the thing to remember, the line was sprouted from an middle-aged evil baron who justifying his diddling with a woman who was actually prey. Pasha was no better letting his zealotry to “the cause” forsake a marriage and responsibility. Fortunately there are more than those two types. Most of us fell into entirely different categories. But their is something to be said about not letting your zealous big head overloading your responsible butt.

      off subject:

      • Sam:

        No, sometimes it doesn’t matter who says something, or even if it is an exaggeration. Clearly, there are more than two kinds of men, but the point being made was that if a person is too extreme, relentless, and without humor–that person is NOT someone you want to be around.

        And, so, the person doesn’t end up being effective in his cause, because one side thinks he’s a blithering idiot–but more importantly, people who should be on his side, in fact, resent (“despise”) him, because he is self-righteous, strident, and often delusional.

        I saw the movie in 1967, when there was a lot of chanting, but not much communicating.

        • Goethe;

          Back into psychobabble again eh? Should I assume this was aimed at your truly?

          I gave you one free pass to respond. MOVE ON !

        • Goethe – i agree re zealotry is something no one wants to listen to or be around. Much as hard right or hard left, when a campaign becomes a crusade, (When Pasha leaves Lara to join the Army & becomes quite evil) we prefer those people to leave Dodge. (Komarovsky was necessarily alive as much as wanting to stay on top and at all costs plus to control Lara – he was a zealot in his own way.)

          We should all have almost out of reach goals; but achievable with hard work and concentration and maybe a little luck; starting out of adolescence throughout life changing with age,education, experience, and maturity; again though, not to supersede other importance’s in life.

          The chanting in ’67 (actually most of ’60’s and 70’s) were “We The People”, all of us, with many parallel crusades. Our politicians didn’t understand war, where there are no rules, except to treat POW’s fairly, and win at all costs to the enemy or get out. How quickly WWII was forgotten. in addition Civil Rights and the 1st Amendment and Declaration were being revived. ” that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights”
          There never should have been an issue over race (pure greediness on slave owners part) after it was reset in 1864(?), or ever, on women equality (existed even in prehistoric times when women were considered most powerful and reverent). Certainly long before 1919.

          Today’s events are not that disconnected. The hard left is driving towards Big Government, Socialism, 1st Amendment: “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof” – double edge sword – no law about religion but no prevention of practicing religion – Gays can marry and be granted benefits, if appropriate, but religious zealots can refuse their services to gays. It should be noted that it would be immoral not to provide if health or survival were involved. The Hard Right does want to inject religion into law, but it also wants Capitalism, Democracy, and damn little Republic. and the bigger the military the better for peace. No one wants to screw with the normally docile 900lb gorilla in the alley.

          The RINOs and Hillary are are not looking forward or back, just treading water. if Pub’s are to win they will have to “Come Together” and look back plus create their own CHANGE for positive goals and righting of a Democratic-Republic.

          how’s that Bob??

          • Sam:

            Thanks. Good stuff.

            Actually, the thing that I found ironic, even at the time I saw the movie, was that after all the bloodshed, many of the same bureaucrats (like Komarovsky) found a way to be in good positions. Sadly, we’re seeing it in Egypt today.

            Of course, you need people like that. Look what happened when we “cleaned house” in Iraq, and left them with NO ONE who knew what they were doing!

            Back to Komarovsky and Lara. I have always been a gentle soul–which means I never “got the girl.” It always bothered me that I’d want to treat a woman with respect, and some total cave man would come along and drag her off by the hair–and she’d love it. Sometimes, women don’t feel they “deserve” to be treated well, sometimes it’s a matter of wanting excitement. In their case, Pasha was passionate about doing the right thing–while Komarovsky was passionate about Lara. Someone once said “nothing is as irresistible as a woman who loves you,” and I guess it works both ways.


            Back to politics, people also like to be “taken” by a politician–someone we feel “loves” us. So if someone can display “passion” without “going too far,” he or she will win every time. After all, the country fell in LOVE with “hope and change,” thinking we’d see a difference in our lives. Obama was too timid. We needed FDR and we got Carter.

            • Goethe – I do agree about never “getting the girl”. In their minds, they were above my league. But I did manage to find three throughout life who are all beautiful, smart, .and creative – but the first one till age 25. Like you say, women like exciting men, mysterious and kinda dangerous.I am none of that plus ugly (that’s my real face, last year, as an icon), i was always just a rescuer.Like right now 90% of women are engrossed in the Bachelor show. Tall, dark, handsome, foreign and he will jump all four of the finalist’s bones, they all know it and still keep going.

              Back to politics. Everyone (60%) embraced Obama like you say. The far left thinks he moves too slow, but he isn’t done yet. He has done exactly what he said early on that he wanted to do. If the Liberal media had actually vetted him they would understand that. If Pubs don’t control all of Congress by a 2/3rds in Nov ’14, Plus reduce his EO capability, then by the end of Obama’s natural term, we will be a completely changed nation. A 2nd rate nation at that, and probably no one or party can bring us back. As I have said many times. The only POTUS i have never respected or trusted because his true character is hidden behind a facade and he hates his own country.

      • Sam:

        Thanks for the link. I had asked if people knew about Bitcoin. The idea of some anonymous people setting up a currency online always struck me as insane.

        Things only have value if people agree that they have value. As soon as the currency is questioned, it has no value at all–just like that.

    • Goethe;

      As Sam said I think we can all agree that there are more than the two type of men described.

      Secondly I fail to see exactly how the quote relates to any of our conversations.

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