Another debt ceiling fight? Yes, it seems like good times just keep coming down the pike. Treasury Secretary Jack Lew appeared on a handful of Sunday political shows to push the administration’s message ahead of a possible debt ceiling fight with House Republicans.

Report from USAToday:

Treasury Secretary Jack Lew hit the Sunday shows today to reinforce President Obama’s message: No negotiations on the debt ceiling.

Appearing on CNN, Fox, NBC, and ABC, Lew said there should be no strings attached when it comes to paying the nation’s bills, and Congress should not repeat the 2011 standoff over increasing the debt ceiling that now stands at some $16.7 trillion.

“The fight over the debt limit in 2011 hurt the economy even though, in the end, we saw an extension of the debt limit,” Lew said on NBC’s Meet The Press. “We saw confidence fall, and it hurt the economy. Congress needs to do its job.”

The debt limit, which allows the government to borrow money to pay its bills, is expected to fully expire after September.

“Let’s remember, we hit the debt ceiling in May,” Lew said. “We’ve been using extraordinary measures since May to pay our bills.We’ll do that for as long as we can.”

House Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, and other Republicans say a debt ceiling increase should be accompanied by major spending cuts that can reduce the nation debt.

This time around may be especially touchy since the House will be tasked with funding the implementation of ObamaCare once the current continuing resolution funding the government expires on September 30. Conservatives are calling for a continuing resolution renewal which withholds all ObamaCare funding leaving the ball in the administration’s court on whether to shutdown the government. The debt ceiling is a separate issue but these two things will be intertwined in the coming weeks and months.


  1. It’s all for SHOW! The same will happen. as always happens. The Democrats and the Republicans will “perform-the-circus” for the media and the American people – then when it’s all over, and the Debt Ceiling (which has no ceiling) is RAISED, these CLOWNS in Washington will slap each other on the back and throw around the compliments to one another on what a “great performance” they just staged. “Fooled them again, aye?”

    Get ready America! You’re about to get “stuck” for TRILLIONS MORE in Government Spending! Bend Over and Bite the Belt! Scream if you must! But it’s gonna come HARD and without any Lube.

  2. The debt ceiling is a rather bizarre concept as it applies to the U S government because the cap is self-imposed. Congress set the first debt ceiling in WWI in 1917. The idea was to offer flexibility for borrowing but to keep a check on the amount that could actually be borrowed without Congressional approval. Congress has raised the ceiling a grand total of 78 times since 1960 – 49 times under Republican presidents and 29 times under Democratic presidents trying to work out a formula and still don’t have it figured out. Ronald Reagan oversaw the largest number of debt ceiling increases, and George W. Bush approved a near doubling of the borrowing cap during his two terms in office. The debt ceiling has been raised on three occasions under President Barack Obama. Putting the brakes on spending going forward makes sense but it won’t erase the existing debt. Which is kinda like cutting up your credit cards. Now,Congress is saying no more raises,which sounds good in theory but leaves only two avenues to pursue, raise taxes on the wealthiest 2 percent or there is bankruptcy.

    • Tess, it is who controls congress that determines the debt ceiling limit.

      No – the real option in QUIT SPENDING SO DAMN MUCH MONEY. What do businesses do to get back to profitability? They consolidate and lean out.We the People”. B.O. doesn’t even have nads enough to present a real budget. Just a beginning: i believe he still has 32 Czars and staffs. Congress has huge staffs. DHS is like 20 different organizations with 20 different heads and staffs. He is creating his own personal civilian Army. Look at the size of IRS, size of Justice department.

      As a true Democrat, all you can think of is raise taxes.

      • Sam: Cut Tess some slack. Except for the last half-sentence, her post was objective and informative. She obviously put some thought into it, and verified stuff.

    • Thus…

      Under the current system of GOVERNMENT “Borrowing and Spending” which creates DEBT, which in turn raises the “Debt Ceiling”, there can NEVER EVER BE a “Balanced Budget”.


      If a “Politician” says the he or she will balance the budget in an “x” amount of time – without making REAL CUTS to Government Spending and to the SIZE of the Government itself – then he or she is LYING!

      In order the Debt Ceiling to have a “Ceiling”, the BORROWING must CEASE! But that means that “GOVERNMENT Spending” must be cut and the Government must learn to function on what it takes in through taxation.

      We already went bankrupt in 1933 and we never recovered. They just changed how Government is funded.

      • DT and Samreusser, good posts, but …

        Wasting your time trying to enlighten Tess — she is a BO shill earning her 30 pieces of silver by posting the Obamination Administration’s agenda here….

    • Tess: “I’m not a demoCrook”….


      Let us deduce from all your previous posts — just another gubbermint shill earning your 30 pieces of silver by posting the Obamination Administration’s agenda here…?

      • Surfisher, leave the girl alone. Her posts are respectful and thoughtful. You may not agree, but that doesn’t make her a bad person. Being so rude and crude does make you a bad person.

        • Really Goethe? Come on.

          You want know why Sam and Surfisher feel the way they do about Tess? Perhaps you should have a dialogue with her on what she thinks of RP and his laissez faire Policies concerning Government.

          Unless she’s had an epiphany, I believe she is still an “Establishment Republican”. This means she is really a “Republicrat”, A “Republicrat” is when both Parties are essentially the SAME when it comes to the “important matters”, but then the “Establishment” within each Party collaborates with one another to “dupe” their constituents by being different only on the minor issues.

          Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, MSNBC and FOX News are all part of this charade. Their Edict = “Keep Americans fighting amongst one another”

          • DT: Crap. The computer just ate my response. I’ll to reconstruct it. . .

            Anyway, I acknowledge that Sam and Surfisher disagree with Tess, but it’s the manner to which I object. They look like two big, ol’ guys beating up on a girl.

            And my point is that she wrote 10-1/2 lines that were objective and not objectionable. Then she says seven words about the wealthihest, and she gets violent attack. Does it have to be violent?

            Seems like anytime Tess says anything, she runs into a sh*tstorm. If you think she’s so delusional, can’t you guys just pat her on the head and ask her to check out a link, instead of ranting?

            I disagree with everyone on here, and if I’m attacked, I’ll reciprocate (which Tess does not do), but I’d rather have dialectic, or at least dialogue. Regarding the economy, DT made a good point in objection to what I said, and I acknowledged it and considered it. Not saying I’m a good guy, but it makes more sense to try to persuade someone, preferably with facts, rather than throwing “30 pieces of silver” at her.

            I fully agree with you that you’re not going to get anywhere with Rush Hannity (interchangeable), but Tess does seem to listen, and respond to specific points, not just make personal attacks.

            I like having opposing views.

            • Goethe,

              I agree with you that opposing views are welcomed. However, just to be fair and objective when it comes to this person, Tess – Once upon a time, I opposed Tess on issues. You know what I was told? She told me not to ever “address her” again on a blog. Needless to say, I chuckled at that. But what I don’t chuckle at, is “Posers” who wish to spew their opinions, but can’t “take it” when an opposing view comes their way. Neocons are like that – and you know how much I despise Neocons.

              Hey. If you’re going play with the big boys, your nose may get bloodied from time to time.

            • DT: I just think the response should be commensurate. The 11-line comment Tess was thoughtful and respectful–with just seven words with which someone could object.

              Then, Sam made a mostly respectful response, offering a link and his opinion. Fine. But then he called her a Democrat and charged that she “can only think” of one thing.

              Then, you were upset with the topic, but did not personally attack her.

              Surfisher was then condescending and insulting. Twice.

              Then you came back, criticizing her, but NOT about what was on this thread. If we’re going to hit people over the head with stuff from other threads, it’s going to be hard to be civil.

        • Goethe Behr — a Shill is a shill and nothing but a shill. The “Tess Trueheart” character is a shill, period.

          If you cannot recognized it (how do you know it’s a girl…personal meeting, or your wishful naivete…?) as a Shill, then you need to understand that the polite and seemingly “reasonable” posts a gubbermint shill makes are designed to gull the people into accepting the pernicious eventual propaganda they aim to portray as “true”.

          Have you gotten so old as not to be able to reason?

          How to spot a Shill in two logical steps:

          1) Shills post 99% of “reasonable” sounding wording in the beginning, middle and near the end of their posts, to lull you into believing that what will follow at the end is, therefore, also “acceptable”.

          2) The catch is the Shills’ final statement — usually a one sentence — whereby they expose their end game to those paying attention to the final goal of their postings — the gubbermint’s pernicious agenda (you seem to be unable to comprehend these maneuvers).

          Above — the Tess shill —posted reasonable sounding wording for 99% of the shill’s post, then ended by DECLARING that is also MUST be reasonable that the ONLY solution is to raise taxes again t some or face national bankruptcy!

          Goethe Behr — start taking some Ginko Biloba, it will refresh your mind to where it used to be.

          • Surfisher:

            Sticks and stones, dude. Sticks and stones.

            If you’re too old to post a constructive (or courteous) comment, maybe you ought to just sit on your porch and yell at the kids to get off yer lawn.

            And I didn’t say Tess was a girl. I said your strident overreaction LOOKED LIKE two old guys beating up on a girl. ( And I used he word “girl” to suggest innocence walking into an ambush.)


    Do not get distracted by all the upcoming hoopla (such as this heading) that will keep popping up daily, in order to have you forget what the Obamination Administration’s goal is — TOTAL GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF ALL US CITIZENS BY THE COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF THE US CONSTITUTION!

    Time to IMPEACH — wake up America, before it’s to late!

    Spread this short and to the point video — make it viral!

    “Why Obama and Bush Should be Arrested” — 7 min video by the Young Turks.


    Do not get distracted by all the upcoming hoopla (such as this heading) that will keep popping up daily, in order to have you forget what the Obamination Administration’s goal is — TOTAL GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF ALL CITIZENS BY THE COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF THE US CONSTITUTION!

    Time to IMPEACH — wake up America, before it’s to late!

    Spread this short and to the point video — make it viral.


    Do not get distracted by all the upcoming hoopla (such as this heading) that will keep popping up daily, in order to have you forget what the Obamination Administration’s goal is — TOTAL GOVERNMENT CONTROL OF ALL CITIZENS BY THE COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF THE US CONSTITUTION!

    Time to IMPEACH — wake up America, before it’s to late!

    Spread this short and to the point video — make it viral.

    “NSA Spys On Every American With Utah Data Center Super Computer ” — BEST 9 min video so far!

  6. I think the bottom line is cause-and-effect. Last time we had this battle over the debt ceiling, the result was the first-ever downgrading of our national credit rating. You can blame that on international bankers wanting the total destruction of the US of A if you want, but it doesn’t matter. The end result was a loss of face and credibility.

    It just seems to me that this is the wrong place to have the fiscal responsibility fight. The money is already “spent,” it’s just not transferred. Congress commits the money and then, when it comes to paying for their own laws, they try to blame it on somebody else.

    There’s a time and place. This ain’t it.

    • Goethe – the Congress commits the $$ – Doesn’t fly – within one day – page 4
      “Debt Limit Reset and Return of Extraordinary Measures in mid-May 2013
      Once the debt limit suspension lapsed after May 18, 2013, the U.S. Treasury reset the debt limit at
      $16,699 billion, or $305 billion above the previous statutory limit. On May 20, 2013, the first
      business day after the expiration of the suspension, debt subject to limit was just $25 million
      below the limit.”

      BO – quit spending your allowance!!

      • Sam: I couldn’t open the pdf, but it doesn’t matter. CONGRESS controls the purse strings. If they don’t vote funds, there are no funds.

        Now, you could have a situation, such as when Nixon refused to SPEND the funds. It was his way of “vetoing” a bill that could have overridden his veto. A bit of a Constitutional crisis. But that’s the opposite problem–NOT spending money Congress wanted spent.

        If Congress doesn’t vote the funds, it can’t be spent. So this is really a disingenuous debate. They voted the funds, despite the debt ceiling. I guess, my question is, why isn’t there pay-as-you-go accounting? The time to raise the debt ceiling is when they want to vote in some new spending.

        If the ceiling has been met, Congress should have to either vote down the spending bill, or pass a debt ceiling increase BEFORE they can authorize the spending that would cause the problem. NOT wait until the “full faith and credit” of the United States of America is being doubted.

    • Goethe – i guess i just don’t understand – from what i read is Congress sets the debt limit based on the proposed budget and what the Gov says it’s going to spend. then the Gov sails right by that budget and overspends requiring action on Congress to either revise the debt limit for an overspent budget or create a crises. The Administration is playing by it’s own rules without care or consequence then blame on Pubs for ruining our credit and causing a crises.

      At this point the horse is pushing the cart. The administration has run past the agreed upon debt limit for a given budget and now asking “daddy” to raise my limit so i can continue to overspend. Goethe you are the finance wizard – this should be your PhD. i’m just an old engineer working the trons..

      As i said: BO quit spending all your allowance and create a budget with a closer delta versus revenue, decreasing the deficit and stick to the given budget. We haven’t had a true budget since BO has been in office. that’s not running the economy that’s trying to make us a second rate nation without firing a shot.

      we are Zooming towards Greece and have Detroit as our Pilot. have you ever looked deep into the causes for Detroit to file bankruptcy??

  7. Ron Paul — 7-22-13 (audio)

    Here is the text:

    “Last week Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke delivered what may well be his last Congressional testimony before leaving the Federal Reserve in 2014. Unfortunately, his farewell performance was full of contradictory comments about the state of the economy and the effects of Fed policies on the market. One thing Bernanke inadvertently made clear was that the needs of Wall Street trump Main street, the economy, and sound money.

    Quantitative easing (QE) and effectively zero interest rates have created paper prosperity, but now the Fed must continuously assure Wall Street that the QE spigot will not be turned off. Otherwise even the illusion of recovery will disappear. So Bernanke made every effort to emphasize that the economy was not doing well enough to end QE, while lauding the success of Fed policies in improving the economy.

    Bernanke was also intent on denying that Fed policies directly boost financial markets. However, the money the Fed creates out of nothing in order to buy mortgage-backed securities and government debt for the QE3 program, benefits first and foremost the big banks and the financial class — those people who are invited to the Fed auctions. This new money then fuels stock bubbles, bond bubbles, agricultural land bubbles, and others. The consequences of this are felt by ordinary savers, investors, and retirees whose savings lose value because of the Fed’s zero interest rate policy.

    As if Wall Street favoritism and zero returns for savers isn’t bad enough, the Fed wants the rest of America to bear a greater inflation burden. The Fed thinks you should lose two percent of the value of your dollar this year. But Bernanke is not satisfied with having reduced purchasing power by ten percent since the 2008 recession. The inflation picture is actually much worse if we look at the old consumer price index —the one that did not assume that ground beef is a perfect substitute for steak.

    Using the old CPI metric, as calculated by John Williams at Shadow Government Statistics, we’ve lost close to 50 percent of the purchasing power of our money in just the last five years. So what you were able to buy with the $20 in your pocket before the financial crisis costs more than $30 today. That might be peanuts to Wall Street, but that’s real money for working Americans. And it’s theft by the Fed. It is a direct consequence of the trillions of new dollars the Fed has “not literally” printed—as Bernanke put it.

    Bernanke’s final testimony before Congress confirms that the Fed has blatant disregard for the extra costs and the new bubbles it is creating. The Fed only understands paper prosperity, not how middle class Americans and the poor suffer the consequences of higher prices, resources misallocations, and distortionary bubbles as well as insidious unemployment.

    The only way out of this tailspin of monetary favoritism is to restore sound money, which would end the Fed’s ability to manipulate currency and put Wall Street first. The Fed has proven over and over again that it has no respect for the real money that preserves the value of people’s labor, their wealth, and their ability to live free and prosperous lives. It is beyond time for the Fed, Wall Street, and the federal government to stop manipulating money and stealing from the American people under the false guise of paper prosperity.”

    Ben Shalom Bernanke — another anti-American that needs to go to prison!

  8. Goethe…I realize it is time for me to exit Nate’s forum. However, I felt the need to thank you for being a true gentleman and scholar. Debate keeps the mind alive and learning. The idea for that last half sentence actually came from Steve Forbes “As I see it, that leaves us with three options:•Raise more revenue;•Raise the debt ceiling; or•Invade Canada and take over their Treasury.” I guess bankruptcy sounded better to me than another invasion. Thanks again…Tess

    • Well,Tess, take a hiatus. Nobody is arguing your points, otherwise–nobody. And you’re the only lady in the joint. Maybe you can just lurk a bit.

      I disagree with everybody on here. Hell, Nate has blocked me more than once,and he and I have gotten close to fisticuffs a few times. I’ve disagreed with you, too, but we need you.

      Don’t leave me at the mercy of all the crotchety old white men. . . .gack.

    • Tess:

      So from your two previous options (raise taxes or face bankruptcy), now you think there may be more — based on another person’s “thoughts” (•Raise more revenue;•Raise the debt ceiling; or•Invade Canada and take over their Treasury.”).

      How about thinking for yourself from now on — might be a novel idea, but if you apply yourself and study for a decade or two, you might be able to came back and have some worthy comments to post.

      Here is a clue:

      Instead of raising taxes so the gubbermint don’t go bankrupt in their ever voracious and insane overspending — have them eliminate the TSA, NSA, CIA and a whole bunch of other useless alphabet agencies that suck us dry with little-to-no result to show. Stop all wars, bring home the troops and close 90% of the useless military bases we have in nearly all major nations worldwide!

      After all — the MIGHTY Enemy — the USSR (upon which OVERWHELMING Threat all our military expenditure was based) is now dead and gone!

      Now try and pay attention, and you and your likes may learn something Pro Bono (for free — no need to go to school and pay tuition for what follows).

      1) The expired Soviet Union had an advantage for over 30 years with more tanks, planes, ships and nuclear weapons than we had. Thus, the mighty build up in spending the most money in armament than all other industrial nations in the world did, and have!

      Now that the CCCP threat is gone — we have no mighty army that can oppose us or let alone invade us. Therefore, military spending should be cut by 80% at least! This alone will balance the budget immediately! Cut taxes and and still have a surplus!

      2) Name a MIGHTY Nation that can pose a DIRECT military threat that approaches a 1/1000 fraction of the THREAT the now defunct CCCP did! There are absolutely no such countries on the planet, combined!

      So, what is left to scare us the “brave” Americans of the 21st Century — a ragtag band of radical Muslims that can’t buy a camel to cross the dessert, let alone build a rowboat navy to cross the ocean and invade our shores…?!

      LOL — how paranoid, or idiotic of mentality is this thinking that has grabbed our Government and the fools that listen to it?!

      • Surfisher: Since Tess is gone, or at least on leave, let me respond.

        To begin with, I disagree with your assertion that the Soviets had superiority. Their naval power was clearly inferior. They had more tanks, but their tank firepower was unreliable. In most cases, we had better weapons, especially as new generations of weapons came up. The myth of Soviet superiority was a fabrication of our militarists (“be afraid, spend more on the military!!!”).

        But geography and politics must be considered. Russia has always been in the middle of a land mass surrounded by enemies. That’s why they were reasonably paranoid. We have oceans east and west, and non-militarist friends north and south.

        As for politics, the USSR had no real allies, whereas on TOP of the most insane military spending the world has ever known, we had separate militarized nations as allies. The USSR had only client states, who were a drain, and as history showed, were anxious to turn against them.

        So we never really had any rational purpose to have our insane buildup. And, if we had let Gorbachev follow through with his reforms, Russia would have had healthy growth, like China, instead of collapsing into chaos and corruption, as they did in the 90s.

        So, anyway, Tess would not have wanted money for more military spending. But since the military is a sacred calf in the U.S., she didn’t bother to fight it. Instead, she argued that more revenue was needed. I think if you suggested cutting our bloated military budget in half, she would be all for it.

        Tess is hardly a NeoCon.

    • Tess – you have put up some great comments over the last year! Please don’t let meanies like me push you off. That 1st amendment is there for a reason. You’re expression is not only welcome, but necessary, and.will make us barrage thru IE and Chrome to see how we are screwed up., sometimes for more time than we should.

      I’m a 73 old cantankerous fart with cancer and not a lot other to do. when i watch “The Five” @ 5pm on FNC sometimes i get p.o.’d enough to throw a pillow at Bob Beckal or Juan Williams, and i only do that when my Broncos are playing.

      W e need the Liberal view to try and receive all three Party views. And i will agree will you on occasion (as i have before).because i believe Unconditional Love tops everything

      We have just got to find a way for America to be more democratic than republic. The people, not the Administration, should make more really important decisions. In this day of Cloud Communications and Computation, we the people could make a 200 million decision in a 24 hour period.

      So Tess, hopefully you’ll reconsider and chop us off at the knees sometimes!!

      I’m so very sorry i offended you with curmudgeon ways.

      Sam [email protected] http://Reusser.US

  9. Not really. The topic was debt ceiling, and the thread led to cutting the military budget as a way to stay under the debt ceiling. Surfisher said we may have needed big military spending at one time, and I was saying, even then, it was insane.

    Well, that’s the closest Surfisher has been to being on-topic in a long time. Usually, he spams the same irrelevant point on a whole bunch of threads. This is actually an improvement. . . .

  10. Are there NO Real Americans left in Congress and Senate?!

    Or are they all cowards?!

    Are both these bodies polluted with anti-Constitutional and American-hating scumbags, that NOT a Single ONE of them will START IMPEACHMENT proceedings against the creature that has usurped for the first time the US Presidency — Barry Sotero, or Hussein Obama….whatever its real name is???!!!

    We all know the charges — but, no-one in Congress or Senate has the guts to be a Real American, and challenge this Usurper of The White House according to Verified Records!

    Contact your Congressmen and Senators, and TELL them this is the reason Barrack Hussein Obama MUST be IMPEACHED! And if you fail to support its impeachment, don’t expect to be reelected!

    The BO lied on all its promises — and once elected did the EXACT OPPOSITE of what it said. THAT’S PERJURY! Also, the BO NEVER supplied its original Birth Certificate — but had a fake published!..

    WHO IS THIS Barry Sotero or Hussein Obama, remains a question to THIS DAY!

    Make this 2 minute video viral!

  11. IMPEACH Barack Hussein Obama — it stumbles-and-bumbles AND STUTTERS (which is usual for this political creature to try and come up with an answer it is not prepared for) while trying to decide what it is: A DICTATOR or NOT….LOL!


    Time to IMPEACH — make this SUPERB 15 minute video viral.

    Also, nice exposure of Hitlery Clinton!

    If any of you here are true Americans, give this post a thumbs up.

    Thank you!

    p.s. Don’t worry about the NSA (Nazis Spying on Americans) profiling you, they’ve been spying on you illegally for years, and the only way to stop them now is to have Obama IMPEACHED!

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