The debate over voter ID has raged for years but this time around we’ll be seeing more state-level voter ID laws enacted than any previous election. States such as Virginia and Pennsylvania, among others, have implemented voter ID laws which could create new scenarios in vote counting.

Report from the Dallas Morning News:

The presidential election is Nov. 6, but it could take days to figure out the winner if the vote is close. New voting laws are likely to increase the number of people who have to cast provisional ballots in key states.

Tight races for Congress, governor and local offices also could be stuck in limbo while election officials scrutinize ballots, a scenario that would surely attract legions of campaign lawyers from both parties.

“It’s a possibility of a complete meltdown for the election,” said Daniel Smith, a political scientist at the University of Florida.

Voters cast provisional ballots for a variety of reasons: They don’t bring proper ID to the polls; they fail to update their voter registration after moving; they try to vote at the wrong precinct; or their right to vote is challenged by someone.

These voters may have their votes counted, but only if election officials can verify that they were eligible to vote, a process that can take days or weeks. Adding to the potential for chaos: Many states won’t even know how many provisional ballots have been cast until sometime after Election Day.

Voters cast nearly 2.1 million provisional ballots in the 2008 presidential election. About 69 percent were eventually counted, according to election results compiled by The Associated Press.

New election laws in competitive states like Virginia, Florida, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin will probably increase the number of provisional ballots in those states this year, according to voting experts, although the new laws in Wisconsin and Pennsylvania are being challenged in court.

New voter ID laws in states like Kansas, Mississippi, South Carolina and Tennessee could affect state or local elections, though some of those laws also are being challenged.

The argument in favor of tighter voter ID laws have to do with electoral integrity. You must provide ID to rent a car, visit your doctor or any number of other things. Therefore, is it too much to ask that you prove you’re legally able to vote in the district in which you’re attempting to vote?

On the other hand, do voter ID requirements disenfranchise the most vulnerable in society by placing an undue burden on them prior to visiting the polling place? Does a voter ID requirement amount to a “poll tax” of sorts by requiring an individual provide some form of ID prior to being counted?


  1. Why do you need ID to Vote, it is an anonymous Vote, and you vote one time for who you like. This is just a trick on Romney to get less votes for Obama Cause we low income people are more likely not to have a valid id. Yeah I have one, But they make you pay 39 dollars to renew it, I think thats a crock of shit

    • It’s just another way to suck a little bit more MONEY out of you. that’s all it is. Income tax, sales tax, gas tax, property tax, school tax, automobile registration every year, for what, just to pay you 36 dollars a year to say hey i own a car. but you know what really burns my ass. is Gambling winnings tax. ok so if I lose your going to give me 28% back. yeah right. but I won 1200 in AC a few years ago, and forgot to report that on my tax return. now i owe the IRS 1700. WTF that is more then i won. Its true. penalty interest. how can they charge interest on money they don’t even have. Now if anyone is on my side, when i say, The IRS is a joke, and a blood sucker to the end. let me know. i don’t mind paying lagit taxes, but this is bullshit.

    • justin graupp STOOOOP….If you want to vote…… get a ID card…
      To many illegal: deceased, birds, dogs, cats etc. voters

  2. Again, if you need a license or a permit, it’s a privilege not a right. America is one of the most difficult countries to vote in of all the countries that hole elections. Not something to be proud of for sure. The more difficult it is the fewer people that will vote and America is noted for its low voter turnout.

    • Difficult? It’s far from difficult…. You only have to show a couple documents in order to get your ID/license, at least in my state. This is even aftger my state made it much harder for people to get fake ID’s, yet it is still easy. Then to vote you pretty much just use that ID to prove who you are.

      Don’t quite see how that is difficult, plus people who have no right to vote shouldn’tbe able to. If they can’t follow the law, how can we trust that they are voting for someone who will follow the law as well?

      • Ian: It’s not so much that it’s difficult–for an organized person. It’s just another obstacle–and usually, the appearance of obstacle is larger than the reality.

        The rich and well organized cannot comprehend difficulty–because they have their State-authorized ID with them all the time, if they drive. Most such people can’t even comprehend that some people don’t drive.

        But what if someone is barely surviving? A civic duty, like voting, is not a priority–but maybe they’ll do it if they have the time on that day. OK, so now let’s say, in addition to making the effort to go vote on election day, they also have to do something days or weeks in advance: Go to get an ID. Where do you go? Does it cost money? Will they check to see if I have parking tickets outstanding? Do you trust the government agency?

        OK, let’s say you care enough to vote, and don’t have to do other things. And, let’s say you (a) understand that you need an ID in advance, (b) know how to do that, (c) are not intimidated by the system, and (d) care. You find the place and go there. OOPS–you need a birth certificate. Who has a birth certificate? I have no idea where mine is. You don’t need it for anything else. Who has to prove they were born?

        OK, so after deciding to vote and caring enough to do so AND overcome the obstacles to going to the ID place. How do you get a birth certificate. I assume you must need some kind of ID to get a birth certificate, right? What ID? How do you get THAT? Is all this really worth casting one out of millions of votes?

        YOU do have your driver’s license. You just walk in and vote. But to those of us who are not as advantaged and organized as you, it may seem like a mountain of red tape.

        Here’s another question. Many of these laws have take effect weeks or a few months in advance of THIS election. So the above decisions need to be made in a short time, if at all. Suddenly, there are obstacles.

        When representatives want to raise their pay, it takes effect in the NEXT cycle. Why the rush?

        I’m not saying there’s no value to voter ID, but the timing is suspect. And it seems that it should be easy. For instance, why not just set up one of those DMV cameras and take the picture at the voting booth?

        But, then again, as Billy says, if you need an ID (license), voting ain’t a right.

        • Here in Virginia the following is considered “valid” in order to vote in 2012:

          -Virginia voter registration card
          -Valid Virginia driver’s license
          -Military ID
          -Any Federal, Virginia state or local government-issued ID
          -Employer issued photo ID card
          -Concealed handgun permit
          -Valid student ID issued by any institution of higher education located in the Commonwealth of Virginia
          -Current utility bill, bank statement, government check or paycheck indicating the name and address of the voter
          -Social Security card (with some caveat for first-time voters)

          That is pretty generous I think. The qualifications of the bank statement, government check, paycheck, etc.. is fairly broad, wouldn’t you say?

          Should voter ID laws be nullified if it can be demonstrated (it is all the time) that not every member of society is as organized as the next?

          I suppose I can see a scenario of a household where one spouse has no driver’s license or utility bills in their name. I suppose maybe not even a bank account also? Pretty tight scenario.

          • OK, Nate. Tell us the truth. Did you KNOW what the requirements were, off the top of your head? Or did you have to look them up? You probably would not have looked them up at all in real life, because you KNOW your position in society means that you always have what you need.

            My guess is that if you took a poll, almost NO one in Virginia would know that list of requirements.

            I’m not uninformed, but I did NOT know I would be asked for photo ID when I voted. I never had before.

            It all seems so easy–ONCE you know what’s required. But even something like a utility bill is not available if the landlord pays the utilities. I have rental property, and I can tell you from direct experience, that there are a LOT of people WITHOUT driver’s licenses, WITHOUT bank accounts, and WITHOUT a lot more that you and I take for granted. Those who “have” really have no idea what it’s like for those who “have not.”

            And, again, it bothers me that all these laws sprang up simply to muddy this year’s election. If this were really an issue, why did they wait until 2012? I think it’s pretty clear that they waited (and put them into effect immediately) to add confusion and anxiety to those who are less well off.

            • Goethe,

              How do people decide on who to vote for? How do they know what today’s date is? They look it up. They watch/or listen to the news. They find a way. So basically you’re saying they’re voting for a candidate of whom they know nothing about (Obama)

            • At the age of 18 residents in VA receive a letter from the commonwealth informing them they need to fill out a form to receive their voter ID card. So there is no reason for anyone in VA to be uninformed of voter protocol. Now, in states that have instituted new voter ID laws, a similar letter should have been sent to the residents of that state. There is no reason a person should be unaware of their state’s current voting laws. If a person is too lazy to take the time to register, why would I want them to make the important decision on whom to best represent us for the next 4 years?

    • Convicted Felons, illegal aliens, and voter fraud are significant problems in America. Chicago has the same quantity of election fraud as afghanistan. The Daley’s have been mayors of Chicago as long as the Kim family has been running North Korea. While 70% of African Americans are democrats, 5% of African Americans can’t vote because they’re convicted felons. Something like 55% of hispanics are democrats, and there’s estimates that half of them could be illegal aliens. Illegals almost completely suport the democrats, while legal law-abiding latinos support republicans (12 of the last 12 hispanics elected to congress were republican). In many cities in America the democratic party pays for buses to go to homeless shelters so that homeless people can vote, again Mayor Guiliani found that more than half of the homeless people in NYC had criminal records, which is what stopped them from legally collecting welfare or other social benefits, causing them to be homeless.
      Ironically, many immigrants also favor democrats, because the democrats are far closer to the politicians in their homelands. The only political group on this planet that wants business to be left alone, and for people to enjoy personal liberty, is the Republican party.

    • Billy, isn’t life so difficult? It’s difficult to get to work on time each day with traffic. It’s difficult to get a doctor’s appointment. It’s difficult to fill out all that paperwork that they ask for. It’s difficult to stand in line for a starbuck’s coffee. It’s difficult to use an Iphone with no instructions. It’s difficult to stand in line waiting for that new Iphone. It’s difficult to learn that new Tour of Duty, video game. It’s difficult to set my sprinkler system. It’s difficult to remember everyone’s birthday or to get out all my Christmas cards each year. Life is so difficult. How do we survive as a species? Now here is something that is really difficult…fighting against identity theft. When someone uses your identitiy or credit cards without you knowing. Now fighting that is pretty darn difficult, almost like getting a mortgage these days. Thankfully, getting my driver’s license and renewing it, is easier than all the above.

  3. I am all for showing a picture ID to vote. Too much dishonesty going around nowdays and what is all the fuss for? Everyone who is an American citizen has to have some sort of picture ID. You cant do anything without it and nobody who is honest should have a problem with showing their ID.

  4. Each year I wonder what dirty trick will be played next on those who try to do the right thing. The driving force behind the Voter ID is to suppress the vote of certain groups. If I did not happen to have a Passport, it would be necessary for me to jump through hoops to vote after 50 years of doing so It’s not a problem showing an ID, but to have to show a specific government ID when you do not interact with government is another matter. States must issue ID at groceries, hospitals, banks–these are the places ALL people go. Fewer to Motor Vehicle. I know that you know that. And its a mean spirit that says otherwise.

  5. The state should make it possible and comvenient for people who are LEGAL CITIZENS to get an ID to vote…you see, Tom, there are many people who are concerned that individuals in the country illegally (as well as people who are, in fact, deceased) have managed to vote in prior elections. It’s not about suppressing the vote it’s about legitimizing it.

  6. I’m sorry, but if either through “the fear of having to do a little work to get an ID” or through your own ignorance you that you don’t have one makes it to difficult to vote, then your likely not going to vote anyways, unless Obama sends a bus to your house, painted up with vote Obama, feeds you donuts and coffee and takes you to the polls…..hrrrm, I think we’ve seen that before. Yes, you do pay $39 or whatever your states designates and you pay it for a reason… have a car, you use the roads….roads aren’t free….this way everyone contributes through use. Even if considered a tax, it’s a fair tax that everyone pays, so get over it. I shouldn’t be penalized because I was smarter or worked harder than you. So what I’m a middle classer, who worked at McDonald’s for 8 years to pay my way through a community college. So what I put on a suit when applying at every job, including McDonalds and it cost me $15 dollars at the good will and I combed my hair, spoke clearly when interviewing and was respectful to my future employee. Showed up early for work every day and was the last to leave, so that he would graciously pay my $2000 a semester tuition, because I worked hard for him, while others at the job sneered, came in late, didn’t tuck their shirt in or do anything at all to show that they were more deserving but still hated me because I was getting “favortism”. Working a 40 hour week all through school just to make ends meet. So I’ll gladly pay my $39 and be proud of what I accomplished, while you sit there and complain about the fact that your poor, but never accepting the fact that its all by your own choice or lack of them.

  7. There comes a time when you have to think. Now is one of those times. You have to be 18 to vote. Everything else that has an age limit like buying alcohol or cigarettes requires an ID. Getting an id not a driver’s license is a way to prove your identity. Yes you actually have to prove who you are and where you live. I am low income. I don’t have a lot and I suffer major anxiety but the fact of the matter is that if I don’t need to prove who I am to use my just one vote then how can the American society feel comfortable that I didn’t use my vote my moms vote who is home bound and my grandmas vote who’s dead and how can you feel comfortable knowing that my neighbors and your neighbors aren’t doing the same thing? I show my ID and voter card since the first time I votedeven tho its a one or the other requirement. No group of peopl are at a disadvantage or advantage over the other when it comes to getting an is or voting according to the law. We all have equal rights and one vote period. Well those who obey the law do anyway

  8. The reason voter ID laws have sprung up is because honest Americans know about the fraud that happened in the last Presidential election – the dead people voting, one person voting a half dozen times under different names, illegal aliens voting. People care about the integrity of our votes.

    Every time I hear someone complain that this is discriminatory, or places an undue burden on voters, or some other ridiculous objection, I have to suspect that the real reason is that the person wants Obama to win and is afraid that he will lose if there is no cheating or fraud involved.

    I have yet to hear a Democrat express any concern over fraud in the elections. This is extremely suspicious. The Democratic Party has turned into a weird atheistic cult. Good luck with that. I hope people of integrity win the day. I want my candidate to win, but never at the expense of clean and fair elections. I’m ashamed that some of my fellow citizens have no interest in honesty or integrity.

    • This year it’s photo ID. In 2016, they’ll come up with a requirement that you show you live in the district. Seems reasonable, right? You can show your address, so it seems easy. In each election year, we can come up with some new proof that will require just a little extra effort. And more the next. Just another way to discourage people who are not fully fired up to vote.

  9. Ron Paul’s senior adviser, Doug Wead, received this message from me today!
    (let me know your take)

    Doug, are you still Ron Paul’s senior adviser?

    If so, please, have a conversation with Dr Paul, and then inform us what his intentions are. We spent too much effort trying to get him elected, to be left now with just silence on your and his part. We, his supporters, have been left in limbo!

    If he is to utilize the Liberty Movement, that has grown exponentially in numbers, to endorse Gary Johnson (or have us Write In Ron Paul as protest vote)— it needs to be announced ASAP! With only 39 days left, it is negligent to the extreme to allow an election that goes unchallenged by a Third Party with all the support that has been garnered so far in opposition to the BO and the Mitt.

    Awaiting an announcement by end of week!

    Doug Wead, if you are no longer Ron Paul’s adviser, let us now — so we can decide what should be done without adhering to your blog’s intent.

    Thank you in advance,


  10. MUST WATCH this 6 minute video!

    12 year-old Canadian girl (who’s IQ is probably higher than the combined IQs of the Barrack and the Mitt) slams the International Banksters!
    Canada has their own Private Banking Cartel — mirroring our Federal Reserve Board — whose goals are the destruction of the Value of our Money !

    Share and make it viral!

    • One of the most recent well-publicized voter fraud cases occurred in the Washington State governor’s race in November 2004 in which Democrat Christine Gregoire allegedly defeated Republican Dino Rossi by 129 votes after weeks of vote counting. The Washington State Superior Court found that 1,400 felons voted illegally, along with illegal votes cast by 53 dead people, two non-citizens and 27 double votes. Since Washington State does not have party voter registration, there was no way of proving exactly how they voted, so the judge ruled there was not enough proof to void the election.

      this is just what the papers reported. if you where here in washington at that time there was a lot more that happened that shouted fraud.

      • Most of that ‘fraud’ in WA in ’04 was determined to be not fraud at all, but voter comparison to an out of date list. The felons were indeed eligible to vote, most of the dead people were living, the double votes were different people, etc… But what the article fails to mention is that ALL of these supposed fraud votes were absentee ballots!! Not only were the fraud cases largely exaggerated, but the voter ID law wouldn’t even prevent them! Time and time again, officials fail to come up with even a few cases of actual fraud that the voter ID laws will prevent. State officials in PA stipulated that in person voter fraud is “very rare,” and had NOT EVEN ONE case of in person voter fraud in over 10 years.

        Personally, I don’t mind voter ID laws, but it pisses me off the way some states are rushing to get them in place before this election. It is obvious that by rushing, they will prevent very little fraud. But they will certainly disenfranchise many. And that is just not ok! Some on here have stated that if ‘they are too lazy to get an ID, they shouldn’t be able to vote anyway.’ That is a very callous way to discuss a right that is guaranteed by our nation’s constitution. And if we so easily take away ones person’s right because they are ‘lazy’ or ‘poor’ or ‘voting for the wrong person’, then your constitutional rights are in danger of being taken away too.

  11. Honest people don’t care about voter ID. Dishonest people are defensive, panicked, worried, fearful and angry. ACORN, SOROS and BLACK PANTHERS. Who would vote for someone who supports these organizations? People who get free cell phones? VOTE FOR ROMNEY! He’s wonderful compared to a do nothing President. Sorry, he wants to spend spend spend. It isn’t his money, it’s ours!

  12. Goethe Behr
    Your argument is moot. I just walk through my work and asked 33 people how many picture ID’s they have. Out of 33 people there where 119 valid ID’s! If you function in our society at all you will have some form of ID. Most schools issue ID’s, my junior high issued me an ID, hell my 9 year old has 2 valid ID’s on him at all times. Photo ID’s are not new for voting. I remember going with my mom to the voters booth and she had to so ID. what’s wrong with having to show you are who you say you are and have to prove your a citizen! Showing your ID also prevents you from voting more than once. If I didn’t have to show ID then I could jump voting stations and stack the ballots in favor of my candidate.
    “But what if someone is barely surviving? A civic duty, like voting, is not a priority–but maybe they’ll do it if they have the time on that day.” if you fall in this category then you need to understand that your vote meant more than anything. the person you vote for can ultimately better your position provided you know what you are voting on. if you are truly as unorganized as you pose in your comment above then do the world a favor and stay away from any voting. you need to take the time to get your life organized before making any decision that will affect not only your life but the life of every American in the U.S.

    • Gray: I DO know people who cannot come up with the ID they’d need to vote. To get a picture ID, you need a birth certificate, to get a birth certificate, you have to show a picture ID.

      We are NOT talking about the privileged classes. We’re talking about young people, old people, poor people who simply do not run in your circles.

      • your making excuses for these people. here in Washington state you do not need a birth certificate to get a photo ID.

        Proof of Washington residence

        If you don’t have a Social Security number:

        Bring as many of the following documents as possible to be reviewed as proof of your Washington residence address:
        Home utility bill (gas, electric, water, garbage, land-line telephone, or ISTA. etc).
        Not acceptable: Cable, internet or satellite TV bills.
        A college or university document that has your current residential address on file.
        Off-campus students: Bring the printout from the SEVIS database which:
        Is in a sealed envelope with the college return address.
        Has your address
        Has proof it was printed by the “Designated School Official” or “Responsible Officer.”
        WA Department of Corrections (DOC) electronic ID Letter that has your current residential address.
        Selective Service card with your current residential address.
        Vehicle title (not a Quick Title with a tamper proof tape over the VIN and Title number).
        Bank-issued documents, for the last 30 days which include your current residential address, such as:
        Account statement
        Credit card statement
        Mortgage statement
        Note: Your documents must include your name and current Washington residential address. It’s illegal to present fraudulent documents. If we find that your documents are fraudulent, you won’t be able to reapply for 364 days.

        Some are federal, but most are state laws or activities where I live.

        1. Boarding an airplane
        2. Writing a check
        3. Cashing a check
        4. Using a credit card
        5. Driving a motor vehicle
        6. Applying for a business license
        7. Applying for permission to hold a protest or rally
        8. Securing employment
        9. Purchasing a house or real estate
        10. Renting a domicile
        11. Renting a motor vehicle
        12. Purchasing a firearm (Includes BB guns)
        13. Applying for a hunting license (waived for 16 and 17 year olds when their legal guardian provides a photo ID)
        14. Applying for a fishing license (waived for 16 and 17 year olds when their legal guardian provides a photo ID)
        15. Purchasing alcoholic beverages
        16. Purchasing tobacco or products that contain nicotine
        17. Purchasing a motor vehicle
        18. Initial registration of a motor vehicle
        19. Applying for a building permit
        20. Receiving prescription medicine
        21. Purchasing OTC medicine that contains pseudoephedrine
        22. Serving on jury duty
        23. Getting a bank account
        24. Cash transactions of $5000.00 or greater
        25. Sales tax exemption for people aged 80 and above

        with the minus of a few thing most of these things are all things people do on a daily bases, so if the people you know can do these things, dont have any way of proving they are who they say they are as provided above, then i suggest they are here illegally and there for do not have the right to vote in this country.

    • Not all state’s voter ID laws would accept the 119 ID’s you counted. My state’s voter ID law says government issued photo id’s only. Basically a drivers license, a passport, or the state issued voter id card. Even some millitary IDs would not count. When I was a college student, I did not have a license, a passport, or a birth certificate. I have all three now, but I would have found it difficult back them to exercise my constitutional right to vote if I went to school here. But somehow I was able to do at least half of the things on your list, including getting a bank account and cashing/ writing checks. Yes, the BANK took my school ID, but the polls would not. Interesting.

  13. my 92 year-old mother needed to get a photo ID after she quit driving. She knew she needed a photo ID to vote. Her desire to vote was so strong she went and got the darned ID. Didn’t make a big stink about it, didn’t whine and cry and ask people to feel sorry for her, she just DID IT because she wanted to vote. So you whiners out there, suck it up and get an ID if you feel you want to vote. If a 92 year-old woman can do it, so can you. Go find someone to help you if you are so “disorganized”. There is no end to organizations out there who will help you.

    • Claudia: Can you not see the contradiction in what you are saying? You KNOW someone–one of many–who quit driving and has no photo ID. Your mother (a) knew where to go, (b) knew what to do, (c) cared enough to go through the trouble, and (d) had the time and means to do so.

      You and I can just walk in and vote. A lot of people can’t, and that’s the point.

      • if these people truly want to vote then they will make the time to get what they need to vote. its as simple as that. oh and i have to say i am not in a special circle, privileged group, or wealthy. so back to the fact that 33 people had 119 forms of ID again just proves my point.

  14. it used to be that only people that owned property could vote, because those were the people that had the most at stake. Now 18 year olds can vote. They don’t even know who they are at 18 but we trust them with voting responsibility.We also allow non-citizens to vote in local elections. I am a naturalized citizen and had to earn the right to vote. Requiring a voter id card ensures there are no shenanigans going on-which I expect is going to happen in this election FROM THE DEMOCRAT SIDE. Obama’s minions are going out and registering people to vote-are they also telling them who to vote for? This early voting business is another concern of mine-yet our military vote is most always suppressed. We are getting closer and closer to a banana republic with each one of these new voter laws. I know how easy it is to get a social security number-ask our pres. he’s got 3 different ones, yet all these “complaints” about how difficult it is to get an id to prove you are who you say you are. I’ve been an election inspector, and I can tell you that it is easy to vote. I’m always suprised at people pulling out their id’s to show me and when I tell them that they don’t need an id they don’t like it. Here in Ny state all you have to do is sign in and they compare your signature with the one you registered to vote with.

  15. Goethe, not knowing what to do is not an excuse. All you have to do is ask, someone will know.
    Photo ID to stop election fraud is a step in the right direction.

  16. The lunacy on this subject baffles me. Who does not carry a form of identification these days? Possibly those who are illegal or those who are wanted by the law? Let’s explore some of the daily routines that require a form of identification; Legitimate proof that certifies we are, who we say we are. If you drive a car, you need a driver’s license. If you get pulled over by a sheriff or policemen, you need to show a driver’s license, proof of insurance, and registration. If you are boarding an airplane, you need to show your ID when you check in your luggage and then again at the TSA check point along with your boarding passes. Try visiting another country without your passport. If you eat at a restaurant and use a credit card, there is a good chance you will be asked to show an ID. If you make a purchase at a department store using a credit card, there is a good chance you will be asked to show an ID. If you use a rental car, you will be asked to show your driver’s license. If you purchase a night stay at hotel, you will be asked to show an ID. If you visit the World Trade Center Memorial, you need to show an ID and go through a metal detector. If you go to Will Call at an event to pick up your tickets, then you will be asked to show an ID. If you pick up a prescription, you will have to show an ID. If you walk into a bank to cash a check, you will be asked to show an ID. If you are a student on campus, you have to carry a form of ID. If you purchase car insurance, you have to provide your driver license number. If you go to a hospital or clinic, you will be asked to show an ID. If you get a job and a paycheck, you will show an ID and know your social security card. If you tour the US capital or request tickets to tour the white house, you have to show you ID. If you want to see the The Late Show with David Letterman, you will be asked to show an ID. If you purchase adult beverages or enter a bar, you will be asked to show some ID. There are already so many things that we do daily in our lives that require us to show our driver’s license or a form of ID…and in some way when it comes to voting for candidates in an election (who also by the way have to show an ID and be born in the United States) one should not be required to show an ID, for fear of voter intimidation? Then the next time a police officer or TSA or a pharmacist ask me to see my ID…I will scream “racism, intimidation, where is the ACLU”. Where is your common sense? Voting is a honored privilege. Showing proof of “who you are” is not discrimination or intimidation, because if it is then so much or what we do in our daily lives (as mentioned above) should be in question as well.

    • 90% of us who have proper ID have it because we have a drivers license. We have a car, and we drive. But if you do not have a car, if you have never been on a plane, if you do not use credit cards, if you do not rent cars or have tickets at will call (translation, if you are POOR), then it is entirely possible that you have lived your entire life never having to get a drivers license. Funny thing, MILLIONS of citizens in this country do not have one. So if you want to make it a requirement to have an ID to exercise one’s constitutional right to vote, fine. But you cannot put these state laws in place just a couple months before a presidential election and expect everyone it impacts to have time to get their ID’s. And you cant blithely say ‘tough luck’ you should have done it sooner. That is called DISENFRANCHISMENT and it is illegal.

  17. 10 to 11% of all people do not have some sort of acceptable identification to vote. You have a higher chance of being struck by lightning than finding an incidence of voter fraud. AND, voter fraud is committed at the polls or by absentee voting. When people bring up voter fraud stats, they always talk about the fraud in registration. If I spelled my street name wrong or someone read my apartment number as 72 instead of 12, that would be considered voter fraud because I “lied” on my registration.

    • You are full of crap. The only people who are against voter ID requirements are those who rely on fraud to get their candidate elected. Shame on you! You must be an Obama supporter.

      • Jean:

        As usual, the voter ID laws are a cure in search of a disease. There just ISN’T any real voter fraud on OUR side of the voting machine.

        So you need to ask yourself, why would legislatures go to the trouble of passing laws that don’t make a difference?

        Well, the key is WHO it will effect. YOU have a driver’s license, so you think EVERYONE does. They don’t. The more privileged in our society have no problem with a voter ID law. So the privileged legislators know their supporters won’t care.

        NOBODY IS SUPPORTING FRAUD. Opponents of the ID laws just point to the fact that (a) there is no problem to solve, (b) it only effects the poor, the old, the young, and those in cities, and (c) since you are not disadvantaged, you don’t even comprehend the problem of getting the ID.

        I have renters who are nice people, but they have no driver’s license or other ID. They don’t even have a utility bill, since I pay the bills.

        How bad can it get? In some cases, you need a photo ID, but to get a photo ID, you need to get your birth certificate, but to get your birth certificate, you need to show a photo ID.

        People often have reported having to go back several times–which assumes that they are so civic minded that they’ll jump through hoops.

        Also, it assumes that they know (a) where to go, (b) what to do, and most important of all, (c) that it is necessary. The first time I was asked for a photo ID I was shocked, and realized that I MIGHT have walked to the polling place, and in that case, would have been refused. If a pretty up-onb-things guy like me didn’t hear about needing the ID, you KNOW that a lot of people don’t.

        But my MAIN complaint abut the ID laws is that they are (a) imposed DURING an election year, and (b) take effect immediately. Therefore, instead of communicating ideas about the campaign, that side has to spend a lot of energy getting the word out that an ID will be necessary, convincing people that it’s worth the trouble, and helping them figure out how.

        If the laws said “for the next election” I would see them as less partisan and hypocritical.

        • You have not been paying attention. There was voter fraud in the last election. People have voted multiple times. Dead people have voted. The current administration has fought the states in rectifying these situations. Do some checking yourself. Voter fraud is a real concern. You do not know anything about my financial situation. You assume that I’m “not disadvantaged.” If you care about your renters, pay for their picture I.D.s. You still have time. I do not believe that 10% of our voting public do not have a picture I.D. I’d like to know how you came up with that number. As far as I can see, you are part of the problem. Anyone who objects to voter I.D. to ensure we have fair elections must wish for fraud. I am disappointed that you, and the Democratic Party, and our current administration care nothing about fair elections.

          • Jean:

            I am not saying never in the history of the world has there never been one instance of “voter fraud,” but the point is that if it is a problem at all that it is negligible, and does not hold a candle to the fraud on the other side, where–if we found out at all–were egregious.

            As you’ll note, I said it’s not a REAL problem.

            But the problem is that the EFFECT is voter intimidation.

            I would not have a problem helping my renters vote, but my point is that if *I* know people this law would disenfranchise, then there must be many tens of thousands out there.

            Oh, I see, if I object to last-minute rule changes in the voting process, I must be wishing for voter fraud. By that logic, you must LOVE the idea of voter intimidation and disenfranchisement. Right?

          • I can only speak for Michigan. I had to get a copy of my birth certificate for a different purpose and I had to show photo ID.

            But think about it. If you can get a photo ID with a birth certificate, and you think you could just walk in and pick one up like a candy bar at the grocery store, couldn’t people just ask for a hundred birth certificates?

            OK, so you’ve already acknowledged that a person needs a birth certificate to get a photo ID, and they need SOME kind of reliable ID to get the birth certificate, then what do you have to show to get the reliable ID, and what do you have to have to get THAT proof??

            For those privileged people, yes, such as yourself, you cannot comprehend how difficult it is for some people to follow rules that are stacked against them.

            • It’s not as hard as you describe.

              To get a photo ID, you go to the DMV with identification that can be:
              expired driver’s license
              birth certificate
              social security card
              military ID.
              You show your identification, pay a fee, sit for a photo, wait a few minutes, and they hand you your card. The fees vary by state. In Pennsylvania it costs $13.50, in Michigan it’s $10 – but free if you are over 65 or blind.

              States with voter ID laws in place also have alternative options for people who don’t have a photo ID. You can get a voter card by showing a couple of pieces of identification: utility bill, piece of unopened mail, medical bill or statement, baptism certificate, etc.

              You generally do not need a birth certificate to get a photo ID, but if you do, it’s not as hard as you claim. Getting a copy of your birth certificate in Michigan costs $26 – but only $7 if you are a senior citizen. A photo ID is requested, but if you don’t have a photo ID, there is a list of about 20 other things you can use instead.

              Anyone who wishes to vote can find out easily what they need to do. You, for example, if you really care, can help your tenants get what they need to vote. Maybe you don’t care enough, but there are others in this country who do believe in helping their neighbors. I do find it hard to believe that your tenants are so completely helpless and disconnected from society. Strange. But those who want to know can ask for help from many sources, including walking to the local library.

              We don’t expect everything to be easy in this society and we don’t expect government to take care of us. We take responsibility for ourselves. People who can’t handle getting an ID shouldn’t be voting. It takes way more initiative to investigate the candidates and make a good decision about who to vote for.

              Your whole argument is silly.

              As for voter fraud….give me a minute.

            • Jean:

              This is another example of the privileged not KNOWING what it’s like on the other side.

              You say it is “not hard” because you can show any of the things you list. Oh, yeah? Weil, I AM privileged, and–

              PASSPORT–I did not have a passport until I was over 50 years old, so even *I* couldn’t show that for most of my life.

              EXPIRED DRIVERS LICENSE–If you do not have a driver’s license, how would you have an expired driver’s license?? And if you had an expired driver’s license, would you keep it? Do you have an expired driver’s license or the paperwork the DMV gave you last time??

              BIRTH CERTIFICATE–I do not know where my birth certificate is. I don’t think most people do. Do you? When I got a copy, I had to show Photo ID.

              SOCIAL SECURITY CARD–I don’t have one. Do you have one? Do you know where it is? I have my number memorized, but I couldn’t SHOW a card.

              MILITARY ID–I was not in the military, even though I didn’t have to go to the extreme of claiming to be a Mormon minister.

              UTILITY BILL–The people we’re talking about have a landlord who pays the utilities.

              MEDICAL BILL–Who keeps medical bills if you don’t itemize your taxes?

              BAPTISM CERTIFICATE–I can only assume you are joking here. I didn’t even know they gave out baptism certificates.

              UNOPENED MAIL–Seriously, if I could go to every mailbox on the block, and pick out just ONE unopened letter, are you saying I could use that to get a birth certificate, then use that to get a voter ID, and any other ID that requires a birth certificate?? If so, doesn’t that negate your entire argument?

              “WE DON’T EXPECT EVERYTHING TO BE EASY IN THIS SOCIETY” you say. But you’re wrong. WE DO expect things to be easy for the privileged, such as you and me, but not “them.”

              And THAT is the problem.

              Then you said, all you have to do is (a) KNOW that this is necessary, (b) KNOW how to do it, (c) KNOW where to go, and then PAY A FEE. How is that not the same as a POLL TAX????

              Getting a birth certificate is “only” $26, but if you think your vote doesn’t count, and that $26 means you go without something basic, yes, that is a LOT. And, likewise, how is that not the same as a POLL TAX?

              More importantly, IF you have the $26, and know how to do all this, and care enough, why are YOU put through this when Jean L is not?? Besides, that does NOT answer the question of how you prove that you’re the person looking for the birth certificate.

              Maybe I care enough to help my renters do all the things they would need to do to vote, but now, why is it now MY responsibility? And while I could help my tenants, I can’t help the tens of thousands of others.

            • My main complaint about the voter ID laws is that they were sprung on us–during an election year–and were put into effect immediately–to give an undue burden on the other side.

              It’s all part of the same program that put billboards ONLY in African-American neighborhoods threatening jail if they don’t vote the right way.

            • Hahaha! Yes, it was childish of me to call you silly. Got me there. But your posts are full of inaccuracies and you seem disconnected from reality, in my opinion.

            • Jean:

              I have facts to back up everything I say, or I don’t say it.

              Specify anything you want me to provide facts for, and note that you have not done so.

    • Voter Fraud is a plain fact of life, and committed largely by democrats. I personally know someone whose long dead grandmother (who was a Republican, when she was alive) somehow voted for Democratic Mayor Dailey in Chicago in 2004. The Daily family has run Chicago longer than Qaddaffi ran Libya. Acorn was also caught fraudulently processing paperwork for 1,000 applicants (one of whom was mickey mouse, which was how they were caught). This side steps the prickly issue of ignoring crime and illegal immigration, which Obama does anyone, but he hasn’t had a chance to do it for voting.

      If we had well policed borders, and felons were effectively prevented from voting this would be a minor issue. I agree that Statistically voter fraud is pretty rare. Under a Leader whose wife wasn’t proud to be an American until her husband was a congressmen, I’d do a complete background check.

      • John:

        How could you possibly know that your long-dead grandmother voted in 2004? PLEASE ANSWER.

        As for the Acorn kerfuffle, that was a successful attempt by the rich and powerful to stifle a voter registration program that was starting to work.

        Yes, it is true that people were paid to get signatures of people–just like people are paid to get signatures of people to sign petitions to stop tax increases.

        The only one who was hurt by the “Mickey Mouse” names was ACORN. Acorn had to pay, but if the name couldn’t be verified, it was no good, anyway–so ONLY Acorn lost.

        I’m glad you agree that voter fraud is rare. But voter intimidation and voter disenfranchisement is NOT. Also, we hear about thousands of ballots being found in someone’s trunk. OK, that sort of thing is “rare,” too, but when you’re talking thousands at a time, that’s a problem that DOES deserve action.

  18. Also, the Democratic party has a long and well documented history of:
    1) Flatly banning black people from citizenship, voting, and according to a democratic supreme court justice, even being people (Justice Taney, Dredd Scott Decision).
    2) During Reconstruction several southern cities with Republican mayors were deposed at gun point (like Wilmington NC, which still has a democratic city government in 2012).
    3)Passing the Jim Crow laws that disenfranchised 75% of all blacks in the South The democrats rescinded the laws that they passed in the south, but somehow came out looking like heros.
    4) The Democrats largely ignoring illegal immigration and crime, since illegal immigrants and criminals are usually democrats (ask any cop or prison guard, I have).

    • John:

      This is funny. Because the group of people who did these things in the “Solid South” switched parties in the 1960s and 1970s, so you are now condemning your OWN people.

        • Jean L.

          I can only imagine that you’re about 23 years old. I was there, and I saw it happen. Southern whites didn’t like Ike’s integration, but they were Democrats then. What really pissed them off is that they thought they had the Democrats over a barrel, because the “Solid South” is what assured a Democrat as president from 1932 until they switched sides (except for Ike, of course, but he was pretty non-partisan).

          LBJ famously said that passing the Civil Rights Act of 1964 would deliver the Solid South to the Republicans for generations. And he was right. Nixon exploited it in 1968, but the switch was confused by the candidacy of George Wallace that year.

          If you doubt that the Solid South switched from Democratic to Republican, you really will have no credibility making any other political point.

        • Jean:

          OK, I took the time to show how little you know. The “Solid South” DID flip from Democratic to Republican–as southerner LBJ said, due to Democratic support of civil rights.

          For the sake of simplicity, I focused on the Senate. First, a note: Since power in the Senate is based on seniority, many OTHER senators would have switched, except that they would have lost their chairmanship or other power. EVEN SO, many did switch from Democrat to Republican:

          Alabama–Richard Shelby
          Mississippi–Thadeus Cochran
          Texas–John Turner
          Tennessee–Bill Brock
          South Carolina–Strom Thurmond
          North Carolina–Jesse Helms

          Those were just the senators (only two per state, remember).

          And to show how CLEAR and COMPLETE the Solid South Switch was, here are Republican senators who were elected AFTER the switch–with date of how long Democrats had held the seat before them:

          Richard Shelby (First GOP since 1879)
          Jeff Sessions (1871)
          William Coleman (1881)
          Thadeus Cochran (1887)
          Kay Bailey Hutchinson (1875)
          John Tower (1877)
          Sexby Chamblis (1852)
          Mack Mattingly (1873)
          Tim Hutchinson (1877)
          John Boozman (1879)
          Bill Brock (1875)
          Howard Baker (1913)
          Strom Thurmond (1877)
          Jim DeMint (1879)
          Jesse Helms (1872)
          John East (1900)
          Paul Trible (18785)
          William Scott (1870)

          Now then, tell me why you think southern whites did “not” switch from Democratic to Republican after a hundred years of NOT electing Republicans.

          • You are still mistaken.

            You said the parties switched places. I thought you meant that the Republicans suddenly became racist and the Democrats suddenly became champions of freedom and liberty. That is what I was taught in school, and it was incorrect. I was told that southern white racists flocked to the Republican Party because it suddenly was in line with their values (or lack thereof), and all the decent people in this country flocked to the Democratic Party because it was suddenly the party of equal rights. Maybe I was arguing the wrong point with you. ??

            I believe the southern Democrat politicians switched parties because they wanted to get re-elected. The result of the Civil Rights Movement was, as intended, that this nation was forced to face the dichotomy between Jim Crow and other racist practices and our core values as stated in our founding documents. The nation’s conscience was called upon, and good people of all colors (mostly white, because there were more white people in this country) banded together and demanded long-overdue corrections.

            LBJ was a racist.

            “These Negroes, they’re getting pretty uppity these days and that’s a problem for us since they’ve got something now they never had before, the political pull to back up their uppityness. Now we’ve got to do something about this, we’ve got to give them a little something, just enough to quiet them down, not enough to make a difference. For if we don’t move at all, then their allies will line up against us and there’ll be no way of stopping them, we’ll lose the filibuster and there’ll be no way of putting a brake on all sorts of wild legislation. It’ll be Reconstruction all over again.”

            –Sen. Lyndon B. Johnson (D., Texas), 1957

            “I’ll have those n*ggers voting Democratic for the next 200 years.”

            — Lyndon B. Johnson to two governors on Air Force One according Ronald Kessler’s Book, “Inside The White House”

            • Jean,

              I cannot believe you are still arguing a point that has been shown in particular detail.

              If, as YOU say, the Solid South was racist. And the SAME EXACT PEOPLE switched from Democrats to Republicans. And the SAME politicians had to switch parties in order to continue to be elected. Then how can you say that THE EXACT SAME PEOPLE were suddenly NOT racist, simply because they changed parties?? That makes no sense at all.

              The REASON they changed parties was that the Democratic Party fought for civil rights–and all your “racist” Solid South stood for, such as the freedom to lynch and the liberty to determine what “nigras” could do, and where.

              The fact that Johnson in 1957–in full “Solid South” mentality–said racist things only reinforces my argument. And it’s only TOO clear that he changed his mind SEVEN YEARS later, after seeing JFK killed IN Texas–and feeling that it was up to him to pass the laws that Kennedy didn’t live to achieve.

              I am not necessarily accusing YOU of being a racist, but I don’t know how any thinking person could deny that the Democratic Party panders to Black people, and the Republican Party panders to the basest instincts of whites.

            • Um….I’m getting tired of arguing with you. You have your mind set. I know your version of history is inaccurate, but you are obviously not interested in facts like – who started the KKK, who passed the pre-1964 Civil Rights Acts, that blacks were Republicans as soon as the Civil War ended and voted that way for decades and decades, etc., etc., etc. Hinting that I’m racist was kind of low, but oh well. You don’t know me; I don’t know you. I’m completely unimpressed with your posts and I am hereby dropping out of this conversation. It’s too frustrating for me.

            • Jean:

              I agree completely that Blacks loved Lincoln and voted Republican (when they were allowed to vote).

              I agree that the KKK was a southern movement started by whites who were THEN Democrats.

              Where your head is getting all screwed up is that it was NOT the SOUTHERN Democrats who passed Civil Rights legislation. It was the NORTHERN Democrats (made possible by Johnson, who said he knew he was writing off the Solid South for generations).

              THAT was when these same KKK types “seceded” from the Democratic Party.

              It actually started when Truman integrated the military. Strom Thurmond even ran for president, for crying out loud, as a “Dixiecrat” in 1948. But the “secession” was not complete until after the 1964 Civil Rights Act, when suddenly, the ENTIRE Solid South switched from Democrat to Republican.

              You apparently have NO knowledge of history at all.

            • Jean:

              OMIGOD, do you even read what you write??

              YES, it was the Democratic Party that fought for Civil Rights. Is it possible you don’t know what “Civil Rights” means??

              AND that is EXACTLY why the KKK (as you call them) switched to Republican.

              Does the name “DAVID DUKE” ring a bell, or are you that ignorant of history??

              David Ernest Duke (born July 1, 1950) is a former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan an American activist and writer, and former REPUBLICAN Louisiana State Representative.

              He was a candidate in the REPUBLICAN presidential primaries in 1992.

              You can’t really be so young that you don’t remember all the news about him in 1992??

  19. As to the danger of voter fraud:

    Guy pretended to be Attorney General Eric Holder and could have voted if he wanted to.

    Voter fraud via impersonation is difficult to detect and easy to commit. This is why Americans want photo IDs checked.

    You think it’s only rich white people who care about preventing voter fraud? Think again.
    A 2012 Rasmussen poll found that 64% of black Americans and 71% of those who earn less than $20,000/year think voter fraud is “very” or “somewhat” serious.

    The non-partisan Pew Center on the States found that one in eight voter registrations were inaccurate, out-of-date or duplicates. Nearly 2.8 million people were registered in two or more states, and perhaps 1.8 million registered voters are dead. You think this isn’t a problem?

    Voter ID laws are designed to prevent not only voter impersonation, but multiple voting, non-citizen voting, voting in the wrong precinct, out-of-state voting, and voting in the names of fictitious people. You don’t care about preventing these?

    You say voter fraud is so rare nowadays as to be negligible? Wrong.
    –A 2004 New York Daily News study found that 400 to 1,000 had voted in both New York and Florida in the 2000 election. Florida decided that presidential election by 537 votes.
    –Three non-citizens were arrested in Iowa last month for voting illegally in the 2010 general election and 2011 city election.
    –A Democratic nominee for Congress resigned in Maryland last month after allegations that she had voted in two states at the same time.

    John Amabile is right, the Democratic Party (creators of the KKK) have a long history of suppressing black and Republican votes. It’s not surprise that Democrats are opposed to voter ID laws. I believe they are counting on fraud to re-elect Obama, through double-voting, voting on behalf of dead people, using fictitious names, intimidating people into voting Democratic, allowing illegal aliens to vote, and God knows what else!

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