Federal Government shutdown enters day 3

Not much news to report other than the shutdown powwow at the White House Wednesday afternoon ended in stalemate.

Report from the New York Times:

Day 3 of the government shutdown will dawn as Day 2 did, with neither President Obama and the Democrats nor the Republicans backing down and with the House sticking to a legislative strategy that has so far been fruitless.

After a private meeting among President Obama and four Congressional leaders ended Wednesday night without a break in the budget standoff, House Republicans on Thursday are expected to continue their attempts to pass piecemeal spending bills that would reopen sections of the government, one program at a time.

But Democrats in the Senate have made it clear that they are unlikely to approve any House proposal unless it is a spending bill that would keep money flowing to the government with no strings attached. And since the Republicans have not abandoned their insistence that any budget measure include language defunding the president’s health care law, the government shutdown continues.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid did have a testy exchange with CNN’s Dana Bash on Wednesday. Reid was being questioned about why the Senate rejected funding for the National Institute of Health to keep clinical cancer research trials for children operating during the shutdown. Here is video of the question and Reid’s now infamous response:

Which side (if either) has your best interests in mind in the short and long term?

126 comments to Federal Government shutdown enters day 3

  • Goethe, it all depends on where you get your news. MSNBC is where most baby boomers, generation x-er’s and millenials get theirs. Traditionalists and conservatives tune into FOX TV and according to “polls” Fox has the most viewership.

    Being an Independent, the biggest thing that troubles me is this: Why is Washington D.C. the richest city in America? Answer: Mis-appropriation of government (taxpayer’s money). Congress has gotten rich off the backs of the American people and play the “blame game” so proficiently that we all loose. Maybe it is time to sweep the house! Try a different approach! If cursive writing is a thing of the past then maybe enacting “term limits” should be a DEMAND that we all try to change!

    BTW Tess, thank you for supporting my “emotional” argument.

    • Goethe Behr

      Daisy: I don’t have a TV. I see shows if I’m at a store or office that has one.

      I had heard that Fox’s average viewer is 65–but that’s only because the ratings companies’ highest category is “65 and older.”

      I didn’t think anyone watched MSNBC. I tried to look up their demographics, but Gallup didn’t analyze it.

  • Goethe, while we have parts of socialized medicine (VA/Medicare/Medicaid) in existence, we don’t have the government tracking our health care premiums to see if we are current or “signed up.” Obamacare will track us from cradle to grave to see where we are. Married couples will get dinged the most. Should one spouse loose their job/have no job, they will still be evaluated by their joint income (regardless how they file their taxes). Only those who are at poverty level, will benefit from the subsidies. I know of one family where the wife has MS and can’t work. She went onto her State’s exchange to find out what her premiums will be. Now they are $20,000 a year with a 50% deductable. Her self-employed husband makes $60,000 a year and is now expected to fork over 1/3 of their income for health care! Their old plan (before their existing company dropped them) only charged $10,000 a year with a 20% deductable for the first $100,000. Their health care expenses has doubled! How is Obamacare helping them?

  • Tess Trueheart

    The Affordable Healthcare plan is complex but it does have character. It will help the 43.6 million Americans living in poverty be able to go to a doctor’s office for treatment. It means millions of dollars will stay in federal, state, and county coffers because this group will no longer be lined up in emergency rooms, running up hospital charges they are unable to pay. There are families above the poverty line that still cannot afford high insurance rates. All will be given tax credits (not cash) to met their insurance payments. I believe there are many flaws in this bill that will need to be improved upon but time and cooperation could do that. One benefit from this act already enjoyed by the entire country: children can remain on their parents insurance policy until they reach 26 years of age. One cannot be refused insurance because of a pre-existing condition and cannot be dropped by their insurance company if they are costing the insurance company too much money or if they contact cancer or serious heart disease, etc.

    • Tess, Do you know if the children (age 19-26) of the insured have to be attending college and/or living at home?

      The biggest flaw that I see in Obamacare is this: They will still be using insurance companies to pay the claims. Insurance is based on risk, last year’s payouts and many other factors that actuaries come up with. In order to cover these new risks, everyone (insured by that particular exchange/company) will be charged more to absorb all the newcomers and their pre-exisiting conditions.

      The one statistic that most are overlooking is this: The un-insured (most are young people and independent contractors) comprise of only 13% of the population! Why should the rest of us chip in and help cover them? Insurance started out as a “benefit” not a “right”.

      As a taxpayer, I am tired of paying for other’s freight that they think they are “entitled” to! Hot meals for their children during the school season and now during the summer, (Ohio has seen a spike in free lunches and the percentage of school kids receiving free lunch is 50%).

      We pay for their secondary education/training; their cell phones; their day care and housing. Since they (the mothers’ especially) are receiving so many handouts (nevermind all the Churches that provide free stuff ~ school supplies; health clinics; oil changes; diapers/clothes/housing; etc..) they frequently have money for luxuries. Eating out; getting their hair & nails done; entertainment; and trendy clothes. African American’s have a 70% out-of-wedlock rate; hispanics 50%; and whites 30%. Collectively, it is now 50!%!!!

      I’ve worked at a Children’s Hospital and I know for a fact that over half the patients already get medicaid or BCMH (bureau for Children with medical handicaps) subsidies. The ones at poverty rate also qualify for social security disability if they have a life-threatening or chronic disease. They are allowed to tap into benefits that they have never contributed one dime towards.

      Excuse me if I sound jaded, but ALOT of our social problems are caused by individual choices! The kids already have a safety net, so I feel that adults should fend for themselves! The one change that I would like made is for adults who have paid their 40 quarters (10 years into SSI) should be able to collect early (without financially qualifying) to offset expenses if their disease/diasability is life-threatening or prevents them from working.

      • Goethe Behr

        Daisy: That’s a legitimate argument. I agree that there is a lack of responsibility among our population, but it’s not just among the poor.

        But if you have hospital experience, you probably also noticed that while some people go to the emergency room for a hangnail, others will wait until they are desperately ill or injured.

        So the reasoning is not just that we have been wasting a lot of money with our socialistic system of having everyone pay for the uninsured–but also, the lack of preventive health-care has cost us and the patient unnecessary pain and expense.

        I’m not saying Obamacare is the answer. I’m just saying that there should be some way–and a less expensive way–to catch health problems before they become so critical.

      • Tess Trueheart

        Daisy…I believe the purpose behind young people being allowed to stay on their family’s insurance plan until age 26 was because higher education has become such a financial burden for many parents. As a nurse, I am sure you have observed that many working young people are uninsured. True, some are negligent because they didn’t think they were going to need a hospital and others simply did not have the money for insurance. Lump these two groups together and their huge costs of hospitalization (and ER) will normally be picked up by you, the taxpayer. Under the Affordable Care Act a patient could seek help in a doctor’s office in the early stages of an illness, preventing exorbitant emergency room costs and excessive hospital bills.

        I agree there are many options in Affordable Healthcare that need to be reviewed and changed. Romneycare, on which Obamacare is modeled, took Massachusett over two years to become successful. Now 98% of it’s citizens are insured and health costs are very low.

        You are right that many people abuse government programs But the blames lies with more than just the poor munchers. Take the Verizon Corporation who made over 12 billion dollars in net profits and paid 0 dollars in income tax. That is one big muncher. General Electric $10.5 billion in profit–0 dollars income tax. There are twenty or more large corporations that also share the 0 dollar income tax bracket. Your income tax not only pays for the poor but you help carry the tax burden for the rich.

        One thing I think we share in common, Daisy, is the welfare of the children. They are blameless.

        Tess

  • Surfisher

    Daisy — keep ‘em coming! Great job you and Josh are doing!

    If there was any doubt that the “Tess “Trueheart” character” (male or female…since one can be anything on the internet) is anything but an Obama shill, it is quickly disappearing.

    The “Tess character” is spending an INORDINATE amount of time to Google and spew forth in volumes the vile propaganda that is Obama’s pernicious anti-American agenda.

    The “Tess character” claimed was very involved with some Women’s Group in Texas — if true, that would leave little time for the “Tess character” to keep on posting and posting, post after lengthy post, NON-STOP every single day here!

    Conclusion: The “Tess character” has exposed itself as nothing more than a pernicious Obama shill.

    • Goethe Behr

      Surf: Another ridiculous character assassination, which adds absolutely nothing to the discussion. All heat and no light.

  • Surfisher

    With Obama’s DISAPPROVAL rating climbing through the roof — now is the perfect storm to go after all of Barrack Hussein’s perfidies full throttle!

    Let’s get this anti-American Usurper of our White House impeached, and hopefully send to jail for a long, long time.

    This will be a good start:

    Contact Texas congressman Steve Stockman and urge him to start an immediate investigation of Barrack Hussein’s failure to provide naught but a forged Birth Certificate online!

    Texas congressman Steve Stockman:

    326 Cannon House Office Building
    Independence Avenue
    Washington, DC 20515
    Phone: 202-225-1555
    Fax: 202-226-0396
    Hours: M-F 9-5:30pm

    420 Green Avenue
    Orange, TX 77630
    Phone: 409-883-8075
    Fax: 409-886-9918
    Hours: M-F 8-4:00pm

    web page:

    http://stockman.house.gov/contact
    ———————————————————————————-

    Make this short video VIRAL!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px9XtjUAIzs

    • Goethe Behr

      Spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam, spam. . .

      Surf: Didn’t Nate already warn you about this sort of thing?

  • Goethe, people hardly go to the ER for a hangnail because they wouldn’t want to wait 6-8 hours being triaged. The ER always attends to the urgent first and then gets to the other cases in order of their severity and medical attention required. Not only does the ER get clogged up by patients who don’t have a family doctor, but it gets clogged up by the mentally ill who are drastically under-served. (That subject is so dire, but better left to discuss at another time).

    My institution and many other hospitals are implementing bio-medical screeings for their employees. If we go through the process of having lab work done (to measure our cholesterol leves; glucose levels; and triglycerides); our weight & height taken; BMI calculated and our waist measured, then we can qualify for an insurance discount, which is quite substantial. The purpose of obtaining this medical information is to access which employees are at risk for cardiac events; cancer events; and diabetes. Health coaches are assigned to the ones who need to improve their numbers or need an intervention, such as smoking cessation.

    Personally, I think this type of intervention should begin in elementary school all the way through high school. Kids are more obese today then any other time period and it has been caused by the access to fast food/processed food/and re-engineered grains, fruits, and vegetables. I also think that parents should be EDUCATED during the school year about the importance of nutrition/exercise/sleep and make it a top priority for their child(ren) to achieve/maintain a healthy weight and BMI.

    Dr. Joel Furhman wages a convincing argument in his book entitled “Eat to Live.” Dr. Furhman is a cardiologist and methodically outlines in his book why our nation is over-fed, but under-nourished. 2/3 of all cancers are linked to poor nutrition and obesity. Since reading Dr. Furhman’s book two months ago, I personally implemented his findings/recommendations and have already lost 20 lbs and my total cholesterol has went down 30 points! I am now eating 98-100% nutrient-dense foods and have eliminated all fats/sugar/sodium/animal products that cause us to over-eat and become overweight.

    Life is so much more complex and challenging then yesteryear. We are constantly being told mis-information and lies that hurt our health. Head and neck cancers are on the uprise because of the spreading of the HPV virus. Instead of educating kids about the risk factors involved with oral sex, the health care industry would rather prescribe them a vaccine to help prevent it. Girls, especially are encouraged to the get the vaccine before they are sexually active. The same goes with homosexual males who contract HIV. They are 300% more likely to contract lymphoma or Kaposi’s Sarcoma. Yet, we never hear a word about those statistics! As a taxpayer, it bothers me to have to pay for serious illnesses caused by choices.

    • Goethe Behr

      Daisy: Cripes, people on here have lost all sense of irony. Obviously, I was exaggerating for effect to say that people go to the ER for a hangnail, but if they don’t have a family doctor, they do go to the ER for things that really should not go to a hospital, and that was my point.

      Beyond that, I don’t have any quibble with the rest of what you just said. I don’t see how it can be seen as a disagreement.

      But I do have one quibble. At the end of your long post (and, yes, I did read it all), you commented that GAYS who contract HIV are more likely to contract illnesses. You ask why we don’t hear about that. I suspect because it’s not “news.” The MEANING of AIDS is immuno-deficiency. Does anybody NOT know that people don’t die of AIDS? They die of illnesses that their immune system can no longer fight, right?

      • Goethe, your writing style and adherence to facts and citings suggest to your readers that you are no nonsense and logical minded. For that reason, I sometimes can’t “read” you when you are using irony or hyperbole.

        Yes, the acronym “Aids” stands for acquired immunodeficiency syndrome. There is no cure for HIV/AIDS, but a variety of drugs can be used in combination to control the virus. My point, while not very well defined is this: It is a disease that is most always caused by risky behaviors (sharing needles or engaging in un-protective sex) and its cost to society and taxpayers is never discussed. Many patients with this disease do die from infections and secondary diseases that their bodies can’t combat. As a health care provider, I equate it with an alcoholic who knows the risk of excessive drinking, but continues to pickle his/her liver and then needs a liver transplant or government assistance (applies for medicaid/SSI benefits) to pay for their medical bills.

        I often wonder if the HIV patient could look into a crystal ball and see what awaits him/her, would they still continue the behavior?

        There are numerous public service announcements showing the dire consequences of texting while driving, but no one ever runs ads (TV/Radio) anymore about the consequences of acquiring an STD.

        • Goethe Behr

          Daisy: I think there are several reasons why AIDS continues. First, sex is a primal human drive. Second, we delude ourselves when we want something badly, so people figure it can’t happen to them–or that their partner is wearing a tie, so he must be upright. But mainly, I think the progress in treatment has given false confidence.

          Most of the time, when you hear a media story on AIDS now, the topic is how someone has lived 20 years with AIDS, or that a cocktail of drugs can keep it at bay. So it no longer seems like a death sentence.

          Perhaps it would help if when a celebrity dies of it, the media angle is that it can happen to anyone–and even money can’t help you. Trouble is, that would be insensitive to the family (unless they are enlisted into the campaign).

          And, thank you for your kind words. I do try to document my facts. Of course, it’s a lot easier to be rational if you are not emotionally involved in a topic. Since I have Medicare, I don’t have to worry about the ACA. And since most of the people, and all the hysteria on this topic is against Obamacare, I have tried to argue against the more extreme assertions about it.

      • Tess,

        You are right in that many young working people are uninsured, not because the insurance coverage wasn’t offered to them, but because they didn’t want to pay the premiums or co-pays. Case in point ~ There was a beautful 23 y.o. college student who worked in my primary investigator’s lab as a student, then got hired on full time after she graduated. She had 30 days to enroll in one of five health care plans offered to every employee, but she declined. She had insurance through her father’s employer, but there was a high co-pay/deductible for the ER.

        The girl kept getting re-current UTI’s and was on/off antibiotics several times during a 9 month period. She also had excruiating pain that left her bedridden for several days on end. She refused to go to the ER and just went to the student-employee clinic. Then one day, she couldn’t bear weight and knew that something was terriblly wrong. Her co-workers in the lab wheeled her to the ER. Many tests/scans were performed only to give the devastating news: She had stage IV renal cell carcinoma. The disease had already metastasized to her spine and several of her vertebrae and ribs showed breaks. She had to undergo extensive surgery and resection of her diseased kidney. She was not allowed to walk for almost a year, but laid immobile in a cast until she healed.

        Did our health care system fail her, or did she exercise her right to choose (decline the options before her), gambled and lost?

        I’ve heard it said that Obamacare needs 7 million enrollees to just break even, but they are hoping for 30 million. Time will only tell if the millenials and other un-insured jump on board.

        Regarding your statement about corporate munchers…..I asked my husband about it (he specializes in tax law/financial investing) and he said that GE was able to pay no income tax due to its <> in the previous year(s). Companies have up to 15 years to claim the loss.

        You are right about our common passion. I spent 25 years of my career helping children improve their lives and mending their diseased bodies. They are our heart, our joy, our future !

        • Goethe Behr

          Daisy: Regarding the 23-year-old girl, you said she was covered by her father’s insurance. While there was a high ER copay, I assume that her other care was covered, right?

          I think your point was that she didn’t go to the ER because she would have to pay for it–so her condition got out of control. I think that’s an argument for requiring insurance. People DO put off care if they are not insured. And things get very expensive.

          Anyway, since she was covered by her father’s insurance, I don’t think it was irresponsible to decline additional coverage.

      • Tess, the words “net operating loss” got lost when I enunciated them with arrows.

        • Tess Trueheart

          Daisy…I am not an accountant by trade but I do know that partnerships, S-corporations and limited liability companies have a different set of tax rules (code) to follow than other types of businesses, particularly the small ones. A quick example: If the Stock Market falls and shares of stock slip below the price the company originally paid for the shares, the investment is considered a negative worth and therefore a net loss. An accomplished financial officer is paid extremely well to find all loopholes in the IRS codes and I understand that is his purpose but I do not applaud him. When a corporation has a net profit of millions, with or without the arrows, and pays not one penny in taxes, something smells.

  • Josh

    Goethe – you are making the false assumption that the only way payments get made to health care providers for the uninsured is from the federal government. But there are other ways to pay for health care – cash, borrowing, charities, write-off…etc. The uninsured argument is really a red herring. I only brought it up because that’s one reason Obama gave as justification for the mandate. but it is baseless since there are so many other ways the health care for the uninsured gets paid.

    Its still a bad idea to force someone to buy health insurance for themselves.

    The reason i don’t oppose auto-insurance is 2 fold – :
    1. The insurance you are required to buy is liability only – insurance for someone you hit
    2. You don’t have to buy insurance for yourself
    3. You don’t have to drive, so you don’t have to have insurance

    Obamacare is different:

    1. The insurance you buy is for yourself (or your family), but you don’t get coverage for strangers
    2. The requirement is unavoidable, if you exist you must have it

    There are certain requirements that are understandable. That is one of them. It is because it directly benefits someone else for you to have it.

    It is not inconsistent. the only similarities between the requirements is the word ‘insurance’

    And its a bad answer to require the entire nation to buy health insurance just to cover a small portion of the society.

    one thing they could do, instead of the full national requirement, is to create a voluntary program people can participate in as ‘liability’ for serious disease or catastrophic accident only coverage (nothing else). Then allow provider’s to turn people away if they don’t agree to pay, or don’t have the minimum liability.

    There really isn’t an easy way around this, but the mandate is the a terrible idea.

    Some might say that’s heartless, but it is heartless to create a slave society, enslaved to each other by dictate of their government.

    • Goethe Behr

      Josh: I disagree that car insurance doesn’t insure the insured person. While it may not cover their medical care, it does cover their fiscal responsibility. A better angle is that requirement to pay a fee for not having insurance is a way that the person pays toward the care of others without personal benefit.

      If you are saying that the added income from insuring everyone will only go to a few people who are uninsured and need care, then what that means is in addition to “curing” that problem, universal coverage should reduce the cost of all other policies. Of course, that probably won’t happen, since insurance company executive pay will skyrocket, instead.

      I agree that there might be other ways to accomplish the goals. But one of them is not to just let people die. That ain’t-a-gonna happen in the US of A.

  • I don’t recall how much her deductible was, but my ER coverage is 80% after I meet the $400 annual deductible. For this reason, most employees don’t go to the ER until the last resort. Compare that to going to a primary care physician (who is in network) that requires no deductible and covers 100% of the fees. My monthly premiums is only $64.71. I think that is very affordable, even if it only covers me. Hubs has his own insurance.

    The exchanges are structured similarly. I also heard that monthly premiums are upward to $150 mo/per person. The biggest actuary “trick” that Obamacare has implemented is to make everyone pay the same premium regardless of age, so not to have targeted the biggest users (55 and older) for they certainly would have seen how “un-affordable” it is.

    • Goethe Behr

      Daisy: thanks for the thoughtful response. I should have earlier said that you provide substance in your posts, and that allows serious discussion.

      Anyway, I had heard that premiums could be less than $100. My guess is that they’re shooting in the dark. I suspect that they are setting initial premiums, but if Free Enterprise works, competition will bring them down. Of course, we’ll probably just see bigger yachts for corporate CEOs…

  • You are welcome Goethe. I really like coming to this site and hearing everyone’s opinion. Everyone has a unique perspective and are knowledgable in so many topics. The press on the other hand, spins everything and slants it to support whatever side/issue that they are supporting. With all the mis-information out there, it is nice to find people who are pursuing the truth with facts and logic!

  • Goethe, you are also right about the spinning of HIV/Aids and how the media wants the populace to think that it is curable and no longer a threat to our health. They are doing a good job when you consider that the population whose incidence is rising the fastest is now the 18-34 year old’s.

    If you want to learn how the Gay community effectively changed the public’s perception about homosexuality and made it a “condition” in the DSM, read Dr. Jeffrey Satinover’s book “Homosexuality and the politics of Truth”. He uses the outcomes from the University of Minnesota Twin’s study to show why homosexuality isn’t an inheritable trait.

  • Hubs is a CPA and a financial investor. He is as honest as the day is long. He doesn’t “make” the laws, but he does have to understand them and implement them.

    • Tess Trueheart

      Daisy…when I used the term Financial Officer, it is not in the same respect as when I would use Financial Investor. Many, Many Americans would be on the dole today if they had not selected a wise Financial Investor.

  • Amen to that Tess!

    Hopefully the powers that be today can come today and settle their differences BEFORE the 17th. I’d hate to see China and Japan
    getting all riled up and then calling in all their notes.