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Here we are at day 14 of the partial government shutdown and there was some notable action over the weekend. Not from Congress or the White House, of course, but from veterans and their families who peacefully stormed the National Mall to dismantle the barricades which have closed the World War II and other memorials for a couple weeks.

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Report from USAToday:

A crowd converged on the World War II Memorial on the National Mall, pushing through barriers Sunday morning to protest the memorial’s closing under the government shutdown.

Republican Sen. Mike Lee of Utah and Sen. Ted Cruz of Texas were among those who gathered Sunday morning, along with former Alaska governor Sarah Palin, according to WTOP radio. Cruz said President Obama is using veterans as pawns in the shutdown.

“Tear down these walls,” the crowd chanted. Protesters also sang God Bless America and other patriotic songs as they entered the memorial plaza.

The memorial has become a political symbol in the bitter fight between Democrats and Republicans over who is at fault since the shutdown began. Earlier rallies have focused on allowing access for World War II veterans visiting from across the country with the Honor Flight Network.

Sunday’s rally was more political. A protest by truckers converged with a rally by a group called the Million Vet March at the World War II Memorial. Participants cut the links between metal barriers at the National Park Service site and pushed them aside.

Jeff Thompkins of New York told WRC-TV he was there because people fight and died for the freedom to visit public spaces and to protest.

“Our constitutional rights are being taken away,” Thompkins said. “People made the ultimate sacrifice, and they should be open to the public, open to everyone to come down here and see this. This is ridiculous. This is not just and not fair. It’s just not fair.”

Citizens decided to take this action into their own hands by “opening” these open-air memorials back to the general public on Sunday. According to reports this morning, the National Park Service is hard at world re-establishing the barricades as they were before the vets removed them.

Here’s a sample of what was coming across Twitter on Sunday as participants began posting images and video of the barricades being removed:

Reports indicate on Sunday that no park service employees interfered with or attempted to prevent removal of the barricades.

122 COMMENTS

  1. I guess it comes down to what an “essential” employee is. If someone is not “essential,” then why is he or she employed??

    In this case, the guards at the memorials and other tourist attractions are deemed “non-essential.” But if the memorials were left open–and unguarded–what’s to keep someone from defacing the memorial, or taking home a souvenir?

    Sadly, we’ve seen what happens when even a highway rest area is left unattended. How would the zealots feel if they saw that someone got in and painted Swastikas on the WWII memorial??

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/evanmcsan/park-service-says-security-concerns-not-political-ones-barri

    Perhaps Obama should just declare ALL federal employees as “essential.”

    • Have you ever been to the WWII memorial? Outside a government shutdown, it is open 24 hours a day because there is nothing to “close”. There are no park police at 3am “guarding” anything. No gift shops, no nothing.

      Literally there is nothing to close. In fact, it has never “closed” before. Closing it takes extra effort because it’s an outdoor open air monument carved in granite on the national mall.

      The Lincoln Memorial also used to be “open” anytime of day because there’s nothing to close. Sure, the museum underneath gets locked at the end of the day, but that’s it. The statue of Lincoln was always open and available, no guards, no nothing.

      Outside of a shutdown, there’s nobody there 24hrs a day to stop any swastikas from being painted because there’s nothing to close. Plus, do we think the 4 foot fences would stop the swastika painters anyways? The whole thing is entirely silly.

    • Clearly, Goethe Behr hasn’t been to any of the memorial sites being barricaded because your post is incredibly ignorant! The zealots you speak of understand the CONSTITUTION & BILL OF RIGHTS, Which I might add IS THE LAW OF THE LAND these Zealots died & got mamed to protect…. These memorial sites are NEVER guarded by anyone…EVER. They are out in the open just like your local park. Never guarded until the petulant man child of a President ordered them to barricaded as a punishment for not getting his way , much like any dictator would. So your point makes no damn sense & shows the ignorant sect of this country should spend a little more time getting informed & a little less time spewing stupidity. You may be well served to go & see your nations landmarks first hand, then you might, just might, have a better understanding of what you speak about…quite frankly sir you should be embarrassed!

      • Ilee Carr…I have been to each of the Memorials in the Washington, DC area.. I suspect Goethe Behr has had the same experience. All of these Memorial’s protection is the responsibility of the Department of Interiors. Just because you didn’t see a police uniform of some sort does not mean that the monument has no guarded protection. The Tomb of the Unknown Soldier is under a marching guard 24 hours a day to this very day. Think back when you went through the Smithsonian, if you had tried to abscond with a souvernir…do you really think you would have gotten five feet before a hand was on your shoulder. Their protector was Shutdown so temporary barricades were placed on sites to prevent vandalism. A group of World War II veterans from Mississippi, lead by Representative Steven Palazzo, committed an act of civil disobedience by breaking through barricades. In attendance, if not the first one through the barricade, was Senator Ted Cruze, whose leadership was responsible for the Shutdown.

        • Tess, you ma’am, with all due respect are full of it and have let the RED HERRING loose on the reservation …. sorry I will not give chase! Typical LIBERAL B.S. CHANGE THE SUBJECT, by mixing apples & oranges until you have a convoluted fruit salad…. The Smithsonian is a Museum enclosed in a damn building, is it not! The open air memorials in question are no more enclosed than your damn neighborhoods park is! The only people that watch over these memorials are the D.C. Police paid for by the District of Columbia just like your local police patrol in the course of their regular duties, so just like a liberal you lie! They’re is the occasional park security when there are events planed or prearranged. The tomb of the unknown soldier is also an open air memorial, HOWEVER, as a military wife, I understand & know full well that memorial is guarded by MARINES that volunteer for that assignment out of HONOR to a code of ethics, something this sorry excuse of a human being we have in the White House & his hypocritical supporters know nothing about! So again, ma’am, with all due respect, you are comparing apples & oranges! Typical liberal nonsense & ignorance on display to compare a National Museum in a federal building to an open air memorial park… I can’t help but wonder how many Bush hanging effigies we would see if he tried to pull a stunt like this Ass has?!? But we all know how much the left holds Vets & Soldiers in contempt, hell your code pinks ‘ antics…. And hippy groups spitting on them says it all… Why should any rational American think for a moment you & the left would see the immorality & pure politically poisoned Kool-Aid being handed out by this administration when it links up with the pure disregard & to the core contempt your side has for those who have died for your right to disregard the 1st Amendment of others!

          • No respect to you, Ilee, my husband served this country admirably in the navy. To his credit, he served his country without complaint, regardless of who occupied the oval office. You have made a profound mistake to state that I hold veterans and soldiers in contempt. Who are you to speak of honor? Your descriptive post shows you are lacking. Whatever made you believe that Hippies(are people called that anymore) are the only ones that spit in wrong places. Code pinks’ antics…is this your code for Communism? And you need to rethink your comment “those who have died for your right to disregard the 1st Amendment of others” From: the 1st amendment “Congress shall make no law prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech”, This means freedom of speech for everyone. There are NO others. I was unaware of any President Bush hanging effigies or is that just another figure of speech.

            .

            • First of all if you are going to reference the 1st amendment why not do so in its entirety instead of picking out pieces; “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
              SO, now that we have it, in its entirety, see the last part… That is EXACTLY what those VETS & their families were doing. Peaceably assembling & petitioning the Government for a redress of a grievance! The very right they & their fallen comrades shed blood to protect. Why is it that Obama removed the barricades for illegals aliens but then closed it off to Veterans (citizens that gave life & limb for this country) ESPECIALLY when he knows the WWII Vets get flown in on special flights, paid for by donations, because many of them will die before they will be able to return & pay homage to their fallen comrades? Dirty Handed – Below the Belt Politics!

              Now, if you have no knowledge of DEMOCRAT Party members openly declaring they are socialists, or Democrat Liberals swarming D.C. touting effigies of President Bush hanging by a noose, or who the Liberal Democrat group known as Code Pink is, or the fact that the Democrat Party disavowed GOD in 2012 at their convention, or the fact that the Liar n Chief currently in the Oval Office has not only violated the 1st amendment Rights of those Vets by trying to barricade OPEN MONUMENTS that are otherwise accessible 24/7 by anyone…but he has also allowed the NSA TO BREACH every Americans 4th Amendment & used the IRS as his private pack of pit bulls to punish & coerce Americans, including the PRESS, that disagree with him politically… You may want to spend a little more time watching what this POTUS has been doing that no other President has gotten away with – then go do some research!

              Lastly, I am the daughter of a 30 yr. Navy Veteran of a foreign war & the wife of another fully retired Disabled Navy Veteran, quite frankly, I don’t care what you or any other ill informed person may think of my unfettered passion for the sacrifice Veterans & their families have made ESPECIALLY when it comes to that dirty, lying, corrupt SOB in the Oval Office trampling on their rights, the rights of the citizens he took an oath with his hand on a Bible to defend & using them as political chess pieces! Now, with no respect back to you as well, I have wasted of all the time I intend to waste on someone that has expressed a blatant disregard for those WWII Veterans, The other Veterans there that assisted their elders, & their Constitutional rights!

            • Ilee Carr — Keep posting here!

              The Tess “Trueheart” character (known here as “Tess Liehard”) is an Obama shill, so constantly posts its vile propaganda in support of Obama’s pernicious agenda against the American people — e.i. its goal to destroy our Liberties and Constitution a little at a time piece-by-piece!

          • Ilee Carr — I feel privileged to have read your superb posts!

            Keep posting here!

            The Tess “Trueheart” character (known here as “Tess Liehard”) is an Obama shill, so constantly posts its vile propaganda in support of Obama’s pernicious agenda against the American people — e.i. its goal to destroy of Liberties and Constitution a little at a time piece-by-piece!

  2. We need to make our non-decision makers go without pay and benefits since they are not doing their job just messing with the American people and our ability to live better. If I didn’t do my job I would be fired.

    • Daisy — superb video!

      All Americans must watch it and learn!

      And it should be shown in every school in America!

  3. Instead of trying to open the Vet memorials, you should be emailing, calling, writing, and contacting your representatives in Congress to re-open our government and raise our debt ceiling Now!!!

    • Lois, do you even know the consequence of what it is you are demanding? How much of this country are you willing to sell to China by borrowing Trillions each year to piss away & rack up more debt? How much of this Government credit card are you willing to pass on to your kids or their kids? Every man, women, & child is in debt to China $58,000 as of today! You got an extra $58k laying around to give to the Chinese to pay your share of the money Obama has borrowed from them & PISSED away on failed crony companies, lobbyists, liberal pet projects like shrimp on treadmills, or flying his Queen Michelle to France & renting the entire Chateau for all 128 of her maids, or flying the family dog to Martha’s Vineyard to join Queen Michelle on an all expenses paid Vacation? When was the last time you got to take yourself & everyone you know on an all expenses paid, Multi-million dollar vacation for a couple of weeks? Or fed yourself & all of your friends Kobe Beef flown in from Japan paired with live Maine Lobster from Maine? Can you just rack up all your credit cards, call them & demand they all double or triple your credit limit without consequences? Can you some how get your neighbor to pay off all of your credit cards just so you can rack them all back up? Get real! Are you trying to see this country crumble financially like the former Soviet Union did? You know that place, the USSR, that doesn’t exist any more? Even the most die hard liberals threw a complete fit when Bush ran up the debt a mere fraction of what KING OBAMA has! King Obama is on record calling Bush unpatriotic for asking for the debt ceiling to be raised & I might add… King Obama voted against it when he was in Congress…It’s hard to believe it only takes 4 short years for Democrats & Liberals to become HYPOCRITES.

  4. This is just the latest example of Obama wanting to ‘make it hurt’ so he can pressure the republicans into caving. Kind of like a few months ago when white house visits were stopped. Pretty sad. I wasn’t ever a Clinton guy but at least he had some shame and would only go so far during the shut – the WWII memorial stayed open during that. When a president has less shame than Clinton, that’s pretty bad.

    All they have to do to re-open government is pass the things both sides agree on. If republicans don’t want Obamacare, then hold it back, and pass the rest. If they can’t get it through, well, that’s just the will of the people. America did, after all, hold elections for 100% of the house in 2012, and America chose republicans. All spending bills start in the House. If America elected conservatives to run it, maybe there’s a reason…

    With the Obamacare sites being non-functional, its not like people are really getting through anyway. Plus, the sites aren’t the *only* place you can sign up for insurance…the phone book has tons of insurance companies, and they all probably have websites of their own people can use. So people can still sign up for insurance if they want…they always could before anyway.

    That would open things up real easily. Not sure why the republicans aren’t promoting this idea. Its effectively what

    • I couldn’t agree with you more Josh…except to add that IF Obamacare is going to be the law of the land then Obama, Queen Michelle, ALL of Congress, & everyone of Obama’s cronies should have to be held to the law as well! All of those exemptions he gave to his friends & big business donors to the Democrat party should all be revoked! The exemption he gave to himself, his family, his staff, & congress should be revoked! Since when does the Constitution say Congress & the President can make laws for the lowly little tax payers but the can live above the law? Last time I checked the Constitution, which is also the law of the land states Congress & the executive Branch must live within & under the same laws they pass for We the People!

  5. They need to completely repeal it. Removing exceptions still leaves the bad law in place and the mandate. Repeal is the only answer, an equally applied injustice is still an injustice.

    It will take them likely a while to address all the issues with it. So repeal really makes sense. They need to repeal it, and re-discuss if its something they really want to do. If they never get the votes to pass it again, that just means America doesn’t want it. If America wants it they will easily get the votes in the 2014 election, and have it right back, hopefully with these release issues addressed. That is *if* they get the majority to pass it.

    Surely the democrat/obamcare supporters who read this think you’ll get the votes for it, right? If you don’t want repeal because you think you won’t ever get the votes again to pass it again…don’t you realize that you are supporting tyranny?

    They never had public support for it in the first place. Obamacare is one of the major reasons the republicans have the house. It was passed in March of 2010, and in less than 9 months there was a larger flip from democrat to republican than the 90’s republican revolution.

    Clearly America doesn’t want it. Repeal would be OK with America.

    • Save America — start Impeachment proceedings against Barrack Hussein Obama NOW! Or at least get Congress to immediately start an investigation of his Forged Birth Certificate posted online — WHY WON’T HE SHOW THE ORIGINAL..if he has nothing to hide?!
      —————————————————————————————

      Does anyone with a functioning brain think that Obama’s goal from day one has been anything but the destruction of our Free Republic, by eliminating the US Constitution as the ONLY TRUE AND INDISPENSABLE framework on which our Nation MUST be based?!

      Barrack Hussein has done much damage to the Constitution already — his NADA signature (which he lied that he’ll NEVER sign) into law allowing any US Citizen to be whisked away, without due process or representation, to some secret Military Base on MERE suspicion (not actual proof) of being a “terrorist”!

      Barrack Hussein also wanted armed drones to fly all over America (but Rand Paul’s heroic stand finally elicited a response from the White House — not Barrack Hussein directly– that such drones wont kill Americans on American soil)!

      Barrack Hussein has started more “treason trials” on whistle blowers than all other presidents combined in US history!

      Barrack Hussein has finalized the NSA Spying on All Americans at the Utah Center — that is up and running already, AND collecting all possible DATA on ALL Americans!

      Barrack Hussein and wife Michelle Obama have publicly stated that they have attended US Flag burnings, because: “We feel that the US Constitution was written in Colonial Times and no longer applies to today’s world, being an archaic document …therefore, we do not think the US Flag represents what America should be today”! Meaning they want the US Constitution abolished!

      These are just a few of the horrendous examples Obama has perpetrated against the American people — but they are very narrow, few will suffer from them today.
      ————————————————————————————————–

      Here is THE BIG ONE — Obama’s Coup d’état of our Republic!

      “Obamacare” affects EVERY SINGLE AMERICAN, our Entire Nation — and as SUCH is nothing else, but the ultimate illegal weapon that ENDS the US Constitution, and thereby our Nation as Free People!

      The US Constitution PROHIBITS the mandate of anyone (whether private or public entities) from FORCING their goods or services on the Free American People upon the threat of penalty! (Example: If Verizon tells you: “You must subscribe to our service, or be penalized”. If Verizon tries to force that upon you, any Court of Law would find them guilty of EXTORTION, and give them jail time)!

      Thus, why would Obama’s “Obamacare” be treated differently, and not as the illegal EXTORTION that it is?!
      ————————————————————————————————–

      What can you do to save our Nation — simple, get your reps to Save America by STARTING an IMPEACHMENT PROCESS of Obama NOW!

      With Obama’s DISAPPROVAL rating climbing through the roof — now is the perfect storm to go after all of Barrack Hussein’s perfidies full throttle!

      Let’s get this anti-American Usurper of our White House impeached, and hopefully send to jail for a long, long time.

      This will be a good start:

      Contact Texas congressman Steve Stockman and urge him to start an immediate investigation of Barrack Hussein’s failure to provide naught but a forged Birth Certificate online!

      Texas congressman Steve Stockman:

      326 Cannon House Office Building
      Independence Avenue
      Washington, DC 20515
      Phone: 202-225-1555
      Fax: 202-226-0396
      Hours: M-F 9-5:30pm

      420 Green Avenue
      Orange, TX 77630
      Phone: 409-883-8075
      Fax: 409-886-9918
      Hours: M-F 8-4:00pm

      he also has a website — look it up
      ———————————————————————————-
      Make this short video viral — Obama’s Birth Certificate shown 100% fraudulent:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px9XtjUAIzs

      • Surdumbass…you keep repeatedly posting this same message. Here is the answer I gave to you earlier with a PS.

        You wrote: Barrack Hussein has started more “treason trials” on whistle blowers than all other presidents combined in US history!
        Truth: the United States has not officially charged an American with treason since the end of World War II until President George W Bush, in 2006, charged Adam Gadahn, an American-born convert to Islam who joined al Qaeda, became the first American to be indicted on federal charges of treason. (not a whistleblower) He remains in hiding overseas. Anwar Al-Awlaki, John Walker Lindh, Bradley Manning were not charged with treason. Julian Assange, Edward Snowden have not been charged with treason.

        You wrote:Barrack Hussein and wife Michelle Obama have publicly stated that they have attended US Flag burnings, because: “We feel that the US Constitution was written in Colonial Times and no longer applies to today’s world, being an archaic document …therefore, we do not think the US Flag represents what America should be today”! Meaning they want the US Constitution abolished!
        Truth: The beginning of this fabrication came from John Semmens, a columnist, who wrote a satirical “Semi-News ” column for The Arizona Conservative. It can be found on the their website. Later,John Semmens said it was a mock explanation meant in zest. Supposedly, it was presented on Meet The Press by retired General Bill Ginn as fact. Dale Lindsborg printed it in the Washington Post. Dale Lindsberg said he found the material on the internet, not from any interviews or visual knowledge.

        You wrote: Barrack Hussein has finalized the NSA Spying on All Americans at the Utah Center — that is up and running already, AND collecting all possible DATA on ALL Americans!
        Truth: The National Surveillance Agency (NSA) has always monitored our communications but mostly had to do with foreign communications. This was largely expanded to cover all communications after the 9-11-2001 attacks.
        President George W. Bush and a conservative controlled Senate and House in our Congress passed the Patriot Act in October 2001 for 10 years. President Barack Obama and a liberal Senate & conservative House signed a 4 year extension in 2011. In other words, Congress has to first agree and pass these bills for spying on Americans before it even reached either President’s desk. President Obama didnot wave a wand and create the Utah Center…he had accomplishes from both sides of the aisles.

        You wrote: Barrack Hussein also wanted armed drones to fly all over America (but Rand Paul’s heroic stand finally elicited a response from the White House — not Barrack Hussein directly– that such drones wont kill Americans on American soil)
        Truth: Spying, or killing, by the use of aircraft is not new. In the 1950’s,under President Eisenhower, Aquatone; a plan for the CIA to develop and deploy a long-range spy plane capable of flying beyond the reach of Soviet interceptors and surface to air defenses. This became the U-2 with the ability to sustain 2.5gs with a maximum speed of Mach 0.8 or 460 knots at a service altitude of 70,600 feet carrying a payload of 450 lbs. When did America know of this spying detail? On May 1,1960 when the Russians shot one down. In the second Gulf war drones really came into their own by sending live pictures back to the command post. Unfortunately, drones are here to stay unless our Congress decides to protect us with a law. There are 327 certificates of operation for drones active in the United States. Arlington,Texas police department, same for Houston,Texas, and Miami, Florida.

        PS…You wrote: Contact Texas congressman Steve Stockman and urge him to start an immediate investigation of Barrack Hussein’s failure to provide naught but a forged Birth Certificate online!
        Truth: January 15, 2013 After just one week on the job, Texas Republican Rep. Steve Stockman threatened Monday afternoon that he would file articles of impeachment against President Barack Obama if he institutes gun control measures. “I will seek to thwart this action by any means necessary, including but not limited to eliminating funding for implementation, defunding the White House, and even filing articles of impeachment”.
        In a YouTube video chat with Ted Nugent, Stockman asked about the victims of gun violence that President Obama had invited to the State of the Union: “Do you feel that the people that Obama have brought forward to hear his speech, do you feel like they are useful idiots or props in this?”
        Sep 18, 2013 in an on-camera interview with WND, Representative Stockton took a broader perspective, noting, “Impeachment is one of the many options, including lawsuits and other actions, we can take to defend the Constitution. Stockman said he has attorneys investigating whether the president has violated the Constitution, and, if so, then it would be time to consider that step. But it’s the last resort, and it’s a very serious step,” he cautioned.

  6. Thanks Surfisher, I found it compelling as well!

    Rand Paul & Ted Cruz in 2014!!!!!

    We need constitutional experts who can keep the train from de-railing and who will HONOR it in the way that it was WRITTEN!

    • Daisy — 2014 will determine if All of America is finally awakening, or the Marxists mainstream media has brainwashed the USA to the point of no return!

      By 2016, if Rand Paul and Ted Cruz are not elected as President and Vice President — our Nation will cease to be a Free Republic, and become another footnote in History as The Greatest Nation brought down by the FEW Zionists in Power, AGAIN, to become Another Slave State!

  7. What unnecessary hostility and hysteria.

    My original post simply suggested that all of this could be avoided if Obama were to designate all employees as “essential.”

    This country has gone insane.

    • But… the ironic part is the same people who you say should be deemed “essential” so they could stay at work were the same people currently at the memorials erecting barricades. There’s the insanity.

      • Oh, Nate, Nate, Nate. . .

        First of all, I didn’t say they “should” be deemed “essential,” I just said perhaps Obama should do so, and that would solve the memorials problem.

        And, second, if these employees were back to work, the memorials would be open, silly. The Park Service isn’t closing the parks to hurt your personal feelings (you’ve been reading too much Surfisher0. They are closing the parks because they don’t have staff to guard and service them.

        There are, on average, TWO THOUSAND acts of vandalism at national parks EVERY year. That includes the crazy lady who threw green paint on the Lincoln Memorial and other landmarks this summer.

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/seven-reasons-why-the-national-parks-service-closed-the-world-war-ii-memorial/2013/10/15/a3df8584-35d5-11e3-be86-6aeaa439845b_story.html

        And, finally, the workers you are berating for trying to protect the monuments until this shutdown silliness is over–are WORKING WITHOUT PAY.

        You need to get a grip,dude.

        • I think you’ve still missed the fact that these memorials never “close,” as it were. At the end of the day, there is no “closing” of the WWII memorial. It’s “open” because, short of erecting a barrier, there’s nothing to close.

          Furthermore, I ask this question again and please answer: If this is for security, do you think a 4 foot metal fence is going to keep any evildoers out of the memorial?

          Of course, it will not. Which destroys the “this is for security” argument.

          At this point, I’m not even taking sides, I’m just asking for the sake of common sense and reason.

          • Nate: Pretty cool. Can we use boldface and italics when we get exasperated with you, too??

            OK, let’s say you and Half-Governor Palin are right, and that they should have left the WWII Memorial totally unattended.

            Then, Joe Schmo is going to say, “heck, my uncle got to see the WWII (“The Big One”) Memorial, how come I can’t go see Yogi Bear at Jellystone? And it becomes a question of what’s open and what’s shut, and how is that decision made?

            And for lack of boldface, I’ll use caps:

            NO, YOU’RE RIGHT, A 4′ FENCE IS NOT GOING TO STOP A GRAFFITI ARTIST FROM TURNING THE MONUMENT INTO A TRIBUTE TO LADY GAGA, BUT THAT’S NOT THE POINT. IF YOU CLOSE ONE VENUE, IT GETS VERY TRICKY TO LEAVE ANOTHER OPEN. SO THEY OBVIOUSLY DECIDED THEY’D CLOSE THEM ALL–TO AVOID THE GRIEF, NOT KNOWING HOW MUCH SOME PEOPLE ARE DEDICATED TO INFLICTING GRIEF.

            And, no, it doesn’t destroy the “security” concern. We are advertising that we are NOT protecting our monuments–and that you can get on TV by breaking through barriers.

            We also know we have a handful of UNPAID employees trying to watch over everything, and the fact that we have advertised that nobody is on duty is asking for trouble.

            And of course, all this is about a unilateral decision made by the Secretary of the Interior (according to the Weekly Standard):

            http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/park-service-director-i-discussed-closing-monuments-white-house_763609.html

            SO–as I said in the first post of this topic, perhaps Obama should just designate ALL federal employees as “essential,” open all the parks, and end the false argument. That was my point. Why not just do it?

            I don’t need a smiley face this time, do I? Ah, hell, why not? 🙂

        • Goethe,

          Your snide tone doesn’t cover up your ignorance it really on exacerbates it! The Memorials you clearly have never wasted any of your time visiting were first & foremost NOT paid for by a single dime of Federal dollars — that’s right … They were created & paid for with PRIVATE dollars via the VFW & private donations! Secondly, the red herring slippery slope argument you insist on repeating over & over & over again, as if that will some how bring validity to it — is just 1 example of the insanity the Left in this country is plagued with & exacerbates the level of ignorance the left holds dear … FACTS JUST BE DAMNED -seems to be your sides Mantra these days! Additionally, these are out in the open granite slabs & statues … They are not ever ever closed or guarded by a single damn person!! What part of that fails to penetrate that brick in your head you call a brain? The D.C. police patrol them during they’re regular patrols, who pays D.C. Police again? THATS RIGHT, the District of Columbia! The only, absolutely ONLY time any of them are patrolled by Federal Park Security is when there is an event taking place in the National Mall like the illegals Obama allowed in before & after he barricaded to keep VETS OUT!
          Now then, would you in all your wisdom, like to explain to me how it is the idiot in the Oval Office thinks he has the authority to order privately funded out in the open Memorials to be barricaded so VETS can’t pay homage to their fallen but ILLEGAL ALIENS get o access them in Protest just 2 days prior?!? You idiots that can’t swallow your pride, egos, & will hold fast to a blatant lie over admitting your guy was wrong — that is the greater problem in this country! Say what you will about the right…at least if one of their guys is wrong on something, they hold them accountable! Keep pointing your sanctimonious finger sir, but go look in the mirror first!

  8. Goethe – just had this discussion in an email:
    Each agency decides who’s needed. And there’s strong evidence that politics plays a part.
    Officially, the calls are made based on guidance issued by the White House Office of Management and Budget, which bases its recommendations, in part, on a Justice Department opinion authored in 1980 by then-President Jimmy Carter’s attorney general. That determination has been interpreted to define essential activities as those that “protect life and property.”
    But clearly it’s more acceptable politically to open much more of the Pentagon than, say, the Environmental Protection Agency. And Republicans see barricading popular sites such as the National World War II Memorial in Washington as a Democratic ploy to spark public outrage.
    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/10/10/204893/in-federal-shutdown-deciding-whos.html

    BTW – you think were not concerned with ACA – but – watch our premiums soon and watch our deductables, too. someones gotta pay for the direct freebies that was handled by Medicaid. and watch your part D as well. My Tricare for Life is re-evaluating what they will cover after Medicare and Tricare’s part D coverage has already doubled my meds cost.

    Because this POTUS is a Sunni and part of the Brotherhood, he has mastered Taqiyya he lauds the Vet’s and AcDU in public but behind the scenes he frackes us every chance he gets. He has already trashed and forced retirement on the good, conservative Brass – all Services.

    • Sam: Yeah, it appears that our whole current problem was caused by Carter’s lame-duck AG, as he was walking out the door. Apparently, having only served for a year or so, he wanted to make his mark on history. That he did.

      But if “essential” means protecting “life and property,” I should think a case could be made to exempt parks people from the shutdown.

      Of course, it’s probably moot now, since it appears that an agreement is coming together as we write.

      • Think about this one Goethe – sent to me by a friend:
        I have worked in the government on and off for 40 years. During that time I became quite familiar with requisitions, bidding, awarding contracts etc. It is a time consuming process with bean-counters and pencil-necked bureaucrats every step of the way. The simplest request takes months not days or hours.

        In less than 8 hours of the shutdown, miraculously, professionally printed 3X4 foot signs appeared all over the country in the tens of thousands saying this park, facility, etc., with custom logos, closed due to government shutdown.

        There has not been a government shutdown in 17 years. These signs were designed, specifications were determined, signs were then requisitioned, bids were posted and vetted, and government contracts were awarded. The materials were then ordered and the signs manufactured then distributed U.S. Mails or freight companies.

        This shutdown was orchestrated and planned well in advance at least 6-8 month ago. Millions of tax dollars were appropriated and spent in this process. There is a paper trail a mile long leading directly to the White House.

        BTW – yes, i read the Senate voted hours ago and Boehner says House won’t oppose it

        • Sam: I agree completely. Everyone could see the shutdown coming a mile away. So, in addition to the disruption, and of course, paying hundreds of thousands of people for NOT working, there was a lot of money spent in planning and preparing for the shutdown. Nobody is ever going to know for sure how much this has cost us.

          I just saw a report that the House already passed the bill. It will be delightful to argue over something else, for a change!

    • That didn’t strike me as an honest video. For one thing, almost all of the people he “interviewed” were black, and one would have to question where he was, and whom he chose. And did we see every answer.

      You and I will continue to disagree about the media. You think there’s some vast leftwing conspiracy. I just think they’re stupid and lazy.

      There’s no indication that the media are to blame for what these people think–=or whether they watch the news at all. But, in their defense, what they are saying is that the wars and the snwoball effect is what got us here. I’m not saying that, but that is clear what they are saying.

      I think you could argue that the video shows that Black people stand behind “their” president, but I don’t see how you can blame the media for this one.

      • Goethe – It was in DC where i understand the population is about 90% black. Yes, we are aware that Obama got like 95% of the black vote. But really!; to vote based on color (cant say race cause Obama is Mulatto) – how intelligent is that?? Right now i would vote for Rice and rely that she is smart enough to hire the people / advisers to bring us out of the dungeon.

        • Sam: Yeah. Not only is Obama “mulatto,” but his family does NOT have the African-American experience. His father was African, not African-American. So Obama is not really “African-American,” he’s more like “African AND American.”

          In 2008, there were two other much more attractive true African-American candidates–Harold Ford and Jesse Jackson, Jr. But Obama, as a community organizer, knew how to organize a campaign.

          And back to the video, I think Black people are not ready to forgive Bush for Katrina. I remember in the fundraising appeal, Mike Meyer’s mouth dropped open when Kanye West said, “George Bush doesn’t care about Black people.” That’s not really true, of course, but that was the impression they had, and it won’t go away.

          When you add that basic suspicion to the cost of wars, tax cuts for rich people, and the fact that the Great Recession began under Bush, then you can see why the people responded as they did.

          It’s like the white people IN Louisianal, who said Katrina was Obama’s fault. Now THAT is stupid.

          http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2013/08/polls_show_louisianians_disapp.html

          • Goethe.. Goethe.. Goethe… don’t make excuses for stupidity in DC by pointing to stupidity in Louisiana. Whether you “forgive Bush” or not doesn’t mean you have to be a complete moron about current events.

            There are millions of “low information” voters who are entirely unformed about 99% of everything going on around them in law and government. When questioned with something so incredibly simple, they demonstrate this total ignorance. They’re not hard to find anywhere.

            It’s funny for you to put words in their mouths and thoughts in their heads to excuse their moronic answers.

            • Nate: The real shame is that people now decide what they want to think about something, and don’t listen to anything that doesn’t agree with them. That is not isolated to DC, and it’s not a racial issue.

  9. Nate: I wasn’t making excuses. “Stupid is as stupid does.” The video was just designed to say that Black people are stupid, and I just wanted to point out that they’re not the only ones.

    That’s really insulting. I wasn’t “putting thoughts in their heads,” implying that they have no thoughts. They just don’t think about these particular things until some jerk throws a microphone in their face.

    Do you know any poor people? My guess is no. I live among poor people, rent to poor people, and try to help. So I know what they think, and why. Mostly it’s about how to survive. And their views here are not that moronic. When he asked them about the shutdown,he wanted it to be “so incredibly simple,” He wanted them to say about this particular day, “It’s Obama’s fault,” or “it’s Boehner’s fault,” or “it’s the Tea Party’s fault,” but they were thinking more long-term.

    Whether right or wrong, these people remembered that there was actually worry in 1999 and 2000 that we would eliminate the debt (believe it or not), and Alan Greenspan had to testify in Congress, to assure them that the government wouldn’t use its excess money to buy up all the private industry, in the form of stock purchases. How things have changed.

    Now, one side blames Bush and he other side blames Obama. I am just offended by people who use “Black” and “low-information voters” interchangeably. I was just pointing out that it ain’t cuz of color of skin.

    • Back up the truck. It didn’t occur to me these people were black. I didn’t even use the term “black” in my post because I don’t care about skin color. Don’t bring race into this where it doesn’t exist, you’re creating something out of nothing. It’s funny that you see things in such racial terms because you’re programmed that way.

      Did I say “low information” black voters? No, no I did not. I didn’t use the term to interchange with the other. Ignorance knows no racial boundaries. I could care less about skin color since I believe people should be judged on merit and character. If you say dumb things and project ignorance, doesn’t matter what your skin color is. If you do great things, doesn’t matter what your skin color is. We’re all equal under God.

      Can’t even believe I had to explain that… lets get over skin color, it’s 2013.

      The rest of your preaching about knowing poor people is condescending and lame. blah blah blah you’re better than everyone, we know.. get off the high horse..

      Again, you’re ascribing thoughts to them they didn’t mention. YOU ARE remembering 1999/2000 but what indication do we have that they are thinking the same thing? None other than your mind-reading powers.

      • When anyone uses the term “low information voter” it conjures up “poor white trash, the illiterate blacks, and the language barriers of the brown”. (Just ask Rush Limbaugh.) We are seeing the rehabilitation of the idea that certain sections of the electorate are just too ill-educated or unenlightened to be trusted to vote properly. “Low-information voters” are being attacked for failing to be politically tribal, Congratulations that you are over skin color but, I assure you the world of 2013 is fully aware of skin color.

        • Tess – you either misheard Limbaugh or wanted to mis-understand him. “low information voter” for Rush is anyone who listens only to the editorial or newscaster who is just an editorial person for ABC/CBS/NBC/CNN/MSNBC. Others, like myself, feel much the same way and it has nothing to do with “poor” / “illiterate” / or “language barrier”. – you letting your prejudice show through with your mis-conception. Typical L.I.V.’s are those too busy with their personal lives to really figure out who’s spinning and who is delivering the real story. Also celebrities in general, because they hear the gossip or go on some liberal’s show and hear the dissing of anyone or anything that opposes them.

          And BTW, most of us who have been around the block a few times traveled some of the world, fought with bro’s of all humanity, quit thinking about race, color, financial class, successes back in the 70’s somewhere – until a low information, unqualified, community organizer who was never been vetted because he was a Democrat; came into office to try and take America away from “We the People”. A person who disses our Constitution and has created more divisiveness than anyone else in almost 40 years except attempts by the NAACP.

          • Form Russ Limbaugh show May 24, 2013:
            “Boyfriend and girlfriend in a knife fight over American Idol. I mean, what we have here, folks, is the epitome of low-information voters. You should see these mug shots. In fact, you know what I’m going to do? I’m going to show them to you on the Dittocam. I’ll take a break here and I’ll set it up. It’s always good talk about low-information voters, it’s good to be able to put a face or faces to such human categories”
            This is just one of many of his derogatory quotes on low information voters. If you think you sold me that racial equality bit, dear Sam, just read your last paragraph.

            • You aren’t very bright Tess, I’m prejudiced against Democrats, Not Blacks or any ethnicity. And you are as blind as a bat if you think Obama was qualified or vetted before winning either election.

            • Tess – didn’t see anything regarding color or financial equity in your quote. And Yes Obama has created more divisiveness in America between political ideologies, race / color, and anything he can think of to divide and conquer free America. And Al Sharpton / Jesse Jackson under the guise as part of NAACP has supported divisiveness since MLB.

              People i would support for POTUS in a heartbeat:
              http://allenwestrepublic.com/
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFb6NU1giRA Note That your Messiah never laughs and claps.
              http://www.mediaite.com/tv/condoleezza-rice-pushes-for-intervention-in-syria-on-cbs-u-s-doesnt-have-an-option-of-no-action/
              http://www.americanthinker.com/2011/12/herman_cain_a_final_word.html

              also, i am very anti-religion but a very strong Deist

            • Sam: I usually don’t tease about typos, but I did wonder if you really meant that the problem was ever since Major League Baseball. . . . 😉

            • Tess,

              I am just curious and maybe your elitist PhD, god complex having – all knowing, self might be able to clear up a little something for a lowly little life & formally educated being like myself… YOU SAID;

              “We are seeing the rehabilitation of the idea that certain sections of the electorate are just too ill-educated or unenlightened to be trusted to vote properly.”

              You mean, the group of citizens, the founder (Margaret Sanger) of your leftist poster child on “choice” (planned parenthood) was created for the purpose of euthanizing from society? Y’all on the left sure are damn funny like that, first you want to set up shop in them there low income neighborhoods so them there folks can kill their unborn & not further infect society. But then turn around & tell the rest of us that we should not merely pick on them there low information voters y’all tried to remove & continue to try to remove from society but we should support yawls eugenics efforts to euthanize them instead! Y’all ENLIGHTENED & ALL KNOWING ones can make fun of them there educated, gun carrying, hunting to feed their family types ….but GOD forbid anyone on the right poke fun at those you manipulate or bribe with free stuff for votes, ya know; the ones you leftists try to kill with choice … And funny thing that y’all ENLIGHTENED & ALL KNOWING God Complex having types can tell the rest of us that we can’t be trusted to make our own decisions/choices on healthcare, gun ownership, the speech we use, the cars we drive, the light bulbs we use, the toilet we buy, the money we give to charity, or what we eat, & what we feed them there kids we choose to let live…. but we can sure be trusted to decide on infanticide…you know, which one of them there babies we kill and which ones we don’t…..all while y’all rail against the death penalty as inhumane & put pedophiles on pedestals regardless of how many innocents they rape & much they pillage.

              It maybe my low level thinkin’ but don’t that seems a little hypocritical of y’all to be bashin’ someone for pokin fun on one hand but havin’ blood on your other hand? ….JUST SAYIN….LOL

            • Ilee: I looked into that once, because someone claimed that abortion was a plot to cut the Black population. But it’s not true. The occurrence of abortion is commensurate with the population as a whole.

            • Goethe & Ilee – although we are long off the Vet Memorial subject – I don’t doubt that once upon a time that Planned Parenthood had euthanizing as a secondary focus, i don’t believe that to be the case anymore. Black and Latino will grow up to be good democrats voters and add to the “Nanny state” roles.

              Goethe, you need better research on percentages of who get abortions. Five x black over euro white and 2 x Latino over euro white.
              http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/gpr/11/3/gpr110302.html
              http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion.html

              What would be interesting would be to see the demographics ethnicity vs wealth and ideology vs abortion.

              Then there is the fights about illegals and abortion as well.

            • Sam: yeah. That’s why I wasn’t adamant about it, because I was told that 20 years ago by someone from the YWCA.

            • Goethe, you can try to DENY her existence & her obsession with Eugenics all you like… But the Group Planned Parenthood DOESN’T even denounce her or deny she is their founder. Hell, they gave Martin Luther King Jr. The Damn Sanger Award.
              http://www.priestsforlife.org/africanamerican/king-planned-parenthood.pdf
              http://www.plannedparenthood.org/about-us/who-we-are/reverend-martin-luther-king-jr-4728.htm

              The writings by her own hand, in her own words, in her books, & the BIRTH CONTROL REVEIW publication which are still available today & tell the tale of her intent…here is just a sample of her writing:
              Sanger’s advocacy of sex education reflected her interest in population control and birth prevention among the “unfit.” Her first handbook, published for adolescents in 1915 and entitled, What Every Boy and Girl Should Know, features a jarring afterword:

              “It is a vicious cycle; ignorance breeds poverty and poverty breeds ignorance. There is only one cure for both, and that is to stop breeding these things. Stop bringing to birth children whose inheritance cannot be one of health or intelligence. Stop bringing into the world children whose parents cannot provide for them.”

              May not have anything to do with war memorials but neither does most of what is being here these days!! IT DOES have everything to do with your concern for the poor because that, along with Physically & Mentally disabled, oh & certain ethnicities were her target! You don’t have to take my word for it: look up Planned Parenthoods NEGRO PROJECT 1939 yourself…

              One of Planned Parenthood’s earliest known projects was in 1939. It was called the “Negro Project” — a project designed to control the birth of “human weeds” which was how Margaret Sanger referred to colored people; a project designed to introduce abortion, sterilization and different forms of birth control. This is what a co-eugenic wrote to Margaret Sanger to make sure the “Negro Project” was a success:

              Clarence Gamble, heir of Proctor and Gamble, wrote a memorandum in November, 1939 entitled: “Suggestions for the Negro Project.” In the letter he suggested black leaders “be placed in positions where it would appear they were in charge.”

              This is a letter to Clarence Gamble, from Margaret Sanger, in which she wrote,

              “We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don’t want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members.”
              http://www.citizenreviewonline.org/special_issues/population/the_negro_project.htm
              http://www.plannedparenthood.org/files/PPFA/OppositionClaimsAboutMargaretSanger.pdf

              Sam’s links & undeniable statics back by his links further proves what is common knowledge …,the abortion clinics are strategically located in larger concentration in low income, poverty stricken, area’s where the populations are more demographically ethnic minority’s … 2+2=4

            • Ilee: Retract yer claws and chill yer jets. I think yer catfight is with Tess.

              All I said was that the last I heard, the abortion rate was commensurate with the population. Then Sam-the-Man said it’s not that way anymore, and I demurred to his more recent research.

              This site could use more demurring…

            • I apologize if my post came across as a catch scratch, my sarcasm can have that unintended effect at times… I was merely lending the links & information..so as to not just be regurgitating political talking points…or bloviating an opine. I have 6 grandkids to go play with & they are a far better use of my time, which is why I rarely participate in posts, blogs & never sign on to Facebook. But I wanted to take a minute to extend an apology to you & not dip-out under a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of my intent.

            • Ilee: most generous of you, and much appreciated. And thanks for not taking offense at my smartass response. Since Billy has abandoned us, I like to toss in some sarcasm and/or irony from time to time.

          • Well, Sam, I must have hit a truth nerve somewhere or you wouldn’t have written all those ugly posts above. I am bright enough to have PhD following my name. For you to think of me as “blind as a bat” is amusing for I often think of you as “Mad as a Hatter”. Prejudice is a bad trait regardless of your victim.

            • Well young lady, i’ll stand tall enough with my BSEE against your Piled higher and Deeper, unless your discipline is mine or an adjacent one, instead of PhD in Dept of Underwater Basketweaving or some other Arts and Parties. I’ll also take my 30 years USN/R and 40 years in Engineering and hi-tech sales and marketing against whatever you throw up.

              The “blue” filter covering your eyes has nothing to do with blue light @ 4500 -> 4900 Angstroms but your inability to realize the damage and destruction your Democrat party is trying to impose on this Constitutional Democratic Republic.

              Plus you have no clue what my “truths” are, excepting my fears towards progressive liberals and their intentions to destroy a 235 year old nation. MY America..

            • P.S. Tess – I was wrong in using the word prejudice – there is no prejudgment, it is pure knowledge of the last 5 years and the noun is animosity. There is no emotion called hate but the feeling i have towards this Administration is the least possible Unconditional Love.

              To fully understand where I am.in my ideology you should really listen Dr.Carson’s You Tube at the Prayer Breakfast:
              http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFb6NU1giRA

            • Ilee: I said: “We are seeing the rehabilitation of the idea that certain sections of the electorate are just too ill-educated or unenlightened to be trusted to vote properly.” This statement has absolutely no correlation to Eugenics or Margaret Sanger.
              Translation: a dozen states have approved new obstacles to voting. Kansas and Alabama now require would-be voters to provide proof of citizenship before registering. Florida and Texas made it harder for groups like the League of Women Voters to register new voters. Maine repealed Election Day voter registration, which had been on the books since 1973. Five states – Florida, Georgia, Ohio, Tennessee and West Virginia – cut short their early voting periods. Florida and Iowa barred all ex-felons from the polls, disenfranchising thousands of previously eligible voters. And six states – Alabama, Kansas, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wisconsin – will require voters to produce a government-issued ID before casting ballots.

              You said:Y’all ENLIGHTENED & ALL KNOWING ones can make fun of them there educated, gun carrying, hunting to feed their family types ….but GOD forbid anyone on the right poke fun at those you manipulate or bribe with free stuff for votes, ya know; the ones you leftists try to kill with choice
              Ilee..I was reared among educated, gun totin’ hunters so you can’t fault me there. By manipulate or bribe with free stuff for votes…do you mean the 48% of American citizens that are on the government dole, one way or the other? “ya know, the ones you leftist try to kill with choice”…I admit I have difficulty interpreting pseudo items but I take it this means abortion. I believe that abortion is a woman’s decision, it is her right and the results is between a woman and her Creator.

              You said “And funny thing that y’all ENLIGHTENED & ALL KNOWING God Complex having types can tell the rest of us that we can’t be trusted to make our own decisions/choices on healthcare, gun ownership, the speech we use, the cars we drive, the light bulbs we use, the toilet we buy, the money we give to charity, or what we eat, & what we feed them there kids we choose to let live”…If you seriously believe this, vote your conscience, work to get others to vote, and sometimes look for the good in your fellowman. JUST SAYIN’

            • Tess,

              If you knew the history of Margaret Sanger & Eugenics you would KNOW it had everything to do with the comments you posted about the ” low-information voter” because they were one of her primary targets in her efforts! Well, along with the mentally/physically disabled, the poor, among others she labeled “weeds” in American Society (aka ethnic minorities)… I posted the links below for Goethe who unlike Planned Parenthood, tries to deny her existence …
              My post written in Hick satire was to make the point that SHE is only 1 of many demonic skeletons hangin around in the good o’l Democrat Partys closet…Some of the other less desirable skeletons kickin bones around the graveyard are the Jim Crow laws which, if your gonna RAIL about voter suppression, you may want to go research that little hat trick by the Democrats!
              Requiring someone show state issued I.D. Is ABSOLUTELY nothing more than you are required to do every damn time you walk in a bank… are they trying to suppress Deposits & Withdraws? OR is to prevent fraud? It is nothing more than you are required to do to get a marriage license… are they trying to suppress marriage? OR verify identity? How about when you are stopped by a cop or to get on a military base?? I could continue with a TON more items that require you to show state issued I.D. – I would hope you get the point & the foolishness of that Liberal Democrat talking point… It’s not like the right are trying to pull off the Democrats Jim Crow hat trick…
              As for my comment on educated, gun totin, bible carrying, folks that hunt to feed their families, I was pointing out the hypocrisy of RAILING against what Rush said when you have Bill Mahr calling Palin a c$nt, Steve Cobert calling her a retard like her son with downs, and THEN candidate Obama talking about “those people”… In addition to all the other nasty, blatantly venomistic vitriol that spews from Democratic talkng heads like: Ed Schultz, Chris Mathews, Rachel Madcow, Stewart, & various others on NPR. Hallelujah, let the hypocrisy march on to live other day.
              And while Democrat Elitests have passed law after law taking away one choice after another, regarding the list I mentioned, there is solace to be had in the fact that: liberals won’t let you drink a big gulp in the Big Apple but fear not – you can still commit infanticide.

              I appreciate your concern for my conscience – I assure you I have NEVER been one to drink anyone’s Kool-aid, I vote my conscience, I participate in ALL elections – even the ones low information voters don’t even know exist on the local level, I have taken my kids & grandkids to State Assembly to learn Civics first hand, & I find all the good I need to in my 6 beautiful Grandchildren, my kids, & loving husband.I’ll work on the other fellow man part.

            • Ilee: I don’t know about your other quotes, but they’re suspect now. Steve Colbert is about the gentlest soul on tv. “PapaBear” Bill O’Reilly says he is a good guy. Bill Maher might say anything, but you’ll have to prove to me that Colbert ever said a hurtful thing against anyone.

            • Sorry Goethe – gotta have Ms.Carr’s back about Colbert. It is his type satire why i quit watching SNL years ago and his personal show is much like his piece on SNL. He is a liberal (as is SNL) and will slice and dice conservatives and especially T.P.iers. and after using satire then backs it up with in your face name calling.

              I don’t know of a single Liberal talking head who DOESN’T use name calling when talking about Conservatives, Republicans, Libertarians, or T.P.iers. and when they run out of things to offend the other side, and are asked a question they know will get them, they change the subject or go back to blaming someone in Conservative history.

              What’s really amazing is i’ll start to listen to one of these wingnuts and it is less than 3 minutes before they go off the rails, have no true logic, start blaming the other side, try to justify a point and get deeper and deeper in fecal matter. It reminds me of when a boss or Commander was trying to justify “why we’re gonna do this”, and they don’t want to, instead of just saying, “do it!”

            • Sam: Colbert was not on SNL, he was on TDS (The Daily Show with Jon Stewart). There’s no question that Jon Stewart is unabashedly liberal–and often bare-knuckled about it, but Colbert is just a “character.” He pretends to be Hannity. But he could easily have been an imitation of Bill Maher. He says conservative things, but with irony. He and Bill O’Reilly show mutual respect, and when Colbert has any conservative author on, he really does show respect to the person.

              But his political view was not in question here. It was whether he would have ridiculed someone with Downs Syndrome, and he could never do that. For instance, he does, from time to time, take a poke at the Catholic Church, yet there is no question that he has a deep Catholic faith.

              And his gentle spirit is accepted by those who can take a joke. The trucker group that recently went to Washington carries a Colbert photo on its website.

              And when it comes to name-calling, conservatives and liberals both do it, equally. Ann Coulter is at east as mean-spirited as Bill Maher, and just as crude and disgusting. It would be nice if the public would just refuse to watch people like Maher and Coulter, but that ain’t gonna happen.

              Back to Colbert, I have always felt that All in the Family’s Archie Bunker did a lot to promote the Reagan Revolution. While the show’s producer wanted to ridicule what Archie said, a lot of people thought “he” made sense. But more importantly, he changed the image of a conservative from a banker or preacher to a regular guy who works on the loading dock. Likewise, by saying conservative things–even with irony–and being so likeable, Colbert may actually be promoting the conservative cause, because he is a genuinely nice guy. That was what was in question.

      • Nate: I’m not saying I’m better than anyone. I’m arguing against people who do. I get really sick of people condemning poor people, and pontificating about them–without actually knowing ANY poor people. They believe the urban legends because it backs up what they want to believe.

        From my experience, poor people are more willing to help each other, and when it comes to corruption, there’s a lot more among people with money–and a lot of the unethical things the more well-to-do do are only not illegal because they buy the laws.

        • The problem with liberal thinking is that on one hand you will say: the problem is with those that think they are better than someone else BUT ON the other hand you will say the problem with the poor is that they don’t think they are GOOD enough to over come their circumstances or their surroundings … Really… You can’t have it both ways … I will challenge you – that EVEN you think you are better than someone else & if you say you are not – your either lying or there in lies the problem. The poor are a victim of the liberals good intentions combined with their lack of foresight & topped by the liberals lack of their own sense of self worth. That word competition, you know that thing y’all hate so much & try to stomp out of this culture, but love to watch every Sunday starting in September & ending with the Super Bowl, is what drives one human to do better & be better. You say the poor are plagued by hopelessness, I say, they are told by the bleeding heart liberals in this country that they need the masters (federal government) handouts to sustain & that breeds hopelessness. AND from my own personal experience with being poor myself, once you decide to get out of the system because it sucks, the system currently in place by liberals is designed to keep you down & voting for them or be cut off from the life line altogether.
          If the poor were all told they deserve better & can have better & that doing better than your friends/parents/family is ok because it gives you more ability to help those you care about…SOME would then have the courage to take the opportunity of a hand up & transition to self sufficiency without fear & complacency that comes from having the master taking care of them anymore …the freedom that comes with the change of circumstance & the rewarding feeling self worth would perpetuate the will & desire to achieve. Again, I am not talking about something I read in a book written by some PhD know it all that wouldn’t know a “hood” if it bit them in the @ss… that was my experience in my endeavor to break free of the system & come out to a better place. Corruption knows no socio-economic bounds … It occurs in the poor neighborhoods with gangs/thugs shooting up & coercing/racketeering in thy neighborhood & in the upscale arena’s with the Bernie Madoff’s & Congressional leaders.

          And while you may be tired of those who condemn & pontificate the poor…I am tired of the ELITISTS using the poor, the middle class, the military, & even the fortunate in these United States, as political pawns provoking the condemnation & pontificating!

          • Ilee…I do know something about eugenics and Margaret Higgins Sanger. First, Mrs. Sanger was a New Yorker by birth and a Republican. Articles do refer to her “liberal” or “democratic” form of thinking but they were not referring to her voting party affiliation. President Theodore Roosevelt (Republican) believed in eugenics, as did Andrew Carnegie Charles Darwin, H.G. Wells, Samuel Butler, Plato, Alexander Graham Bell, John D. Rockefeller, and John H. Kellogg to name a few.I do not pretend to sanction her thoughts on eugenics but I do applaud her work and devotion to finding contraceptives for both men and women.

            And the Stephen Cobert episode…it went like this: On his radio show, Rush Limbaugh said: “Our political correct society is acting like some giant insult’s taken place by calling a bunch of people who are retards, retards. I mean these people, these liberal activists are kooks. They are looney tunes. And I’m not going to apologize for it, I’m just quoting Emanuel. It’s in the news. I think their big news is he’s out there calling Obama’s number one supporters f–’ing retards. So now there’s going to be a meeting. There’s going to be a retard summit at the White House.”
            “They are kooks, so I agree with Rush Limbaugh,” Sarah Palin said, claiming Limbaugh was merely “using satire.”
            “Feb. 8, 2010…“Sarah Palin knows that it’s okay to call someone a retard if like Rush you clearly don’t mean it which is why we should all come to her defense and say: Sarah Palin is a fucking retard,” Colbert quipped. In no fashion did Stephen Cobert reference her son as a retard.
            Rush Limbaugh wants to be regarded as a news commentator. Cobert and Maher are comedians. In a standup comedy routine Bill Maher did call Sarah Palin a c–t. On HBO, he called her a “twat”.

            The New Yorker who took away the Big Gulp was Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a Republican turned Independent. No democrat in that office since 1989.

            • Tess – as a typical liberal commenter you fantasize and take statements out of context. 1st – Rush is a political commentator, not news, and that a huge difference. And Colbert / Maher are liberal satirists who enjoy being uncouth, cruel, and in general the lower echelons of human behavior. Plus you always seem to call out Rush who happens to have captured the #1 Talking Voice in America!. Think that pisses off the the liberal talking heads and voices???
              http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2010/02/03/the_president_s_chief_of_staff_apologizes_to_f_ing_retards

              In addition, what the liberal media did to DEFAME Palin in ’08 and Cain in ’12 borders on felony slander and are petrified of her knowledge and skill set, and Cain’s ability to win – put absolute fear in liberal media’s minds. To think – because liberals can’t win or convince on facts, pro Constitutional bills, and decisions that will benefit the grassroots, We the People – they will twist reality to pseudo-reality and put it thru all the talking heads in the liberal mass media. All the time, Unfortunately, the real losers are the American people.

              The Liberal MSM looks for any reason to take down the “other side”, using defamation, racism, and inhumane name calling. I would hate to be them, the bad taste afterward, the sadness .in my Soul for defaming someone . . .
              BTW – as robust a person you are, i’m sure you are, you know that CO requires proof of citizenship and proof of your district to vote. i believe several Western states do. Can you tell me why that shouldn’t be the minimum to vote in this beautiful free country??

            • Sam,

              It is really difficult to point out the irony of the hypocrisy when there is a failure to: A) know the definition of the word & B) live by the code ; “it’s OK for me & mine but not for you or your — so QUICK –point to the actions of others to excuse thy own…

              By the way: I have meant to send a big “HOORAH” back your way & thank you for your dedicated service to this great nation! ; )

            • Sam…If you will recall previous posts, I was free with praise for Sarah Palin’s performance as governor of Alaska. Her greatest foe was a segment of the Republican party. However, she said what she said which was the quote I used. Herman Cain had some good ideas, especially “the ten percent across the board”. His fellow candidates did him in as much as the media.

              You are right about Rush Limbaugh being #1 talk host. He is right up there with all the uncouths and satirists. Here is how he explains himself. October 22, 2013…”I’ve got all these sound bites, and, honestly, folks, the first 11 are about me. They’re about how I’m the reason there is partisanship in Washington, I’m the reason there’s division in the Republican Party, I’m the reason the Republican Party is afraid to compromise, negotiate, and be bipartisan. I am the reason Ted Cruz is behaving the way he’s behaving. Ted Cruz is behaving the way he’s behaving because he wants to be me. I mean, it just never ends”

              I base my belief on voting privileges on the Fourteenth amendment, section 2: “All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws”.

              Sam…you defame me…I bear you no ill will so don’t have any sadness. All parties, Republican, Democrat, Tea Party, or you name it, are basically hell bent on defaulting the “other”fellow. Each group uses defamation, racism, inhumane name calling so don’t put that stigma on just one party or group.

            • Now, now, Tess: And Goeth: since you think my “quotes” are suspect & in the event you have not noticed — I use parentheses for commentary & quotations on said quotes… I posted the link of your GENTLE GIANT who isn’t capable of vitriolic poison.
              Back to TESS; Bloomberg WAS a Democrat his whole life : .[1] A Democrat before seeking elective office, Bloomberg switched his party registration in 2001 to run for mayor as a Republican… (so he could get elected) He campaigned to change the city’s term limits law and was elected to his third term in 2009 as an independent candidate on the Republican ballot line. HENCE : RINO — every party has them! And if you care to argue that fact – Arlin Spector is a DEMOCRAT? I know you liberals like to have it both ways but It is physically impossible to have ones cake & eat it too!

              I really can’t understand the Liberal & clearly YOUR obsession with Rush other than; how’d you word that to Sam again? OH – that’s right, he must “hit a nerve in the truth somewhere” … He has NEVER claimed; (JUST like Colbert & Stewart) to be a reporter, a new broadcaster, or anything other than a Hard Line Conservative that picks apart the items in the news & uses a recipe of mixed attributes to do so.
              I realize you feeler types have a hard time processing multi-layered information &/or what did you call that again, “pseudo items”UNLESS OF COURSE they are coming from liberal talking heads… So I can see how Rush’s ability to use sarcasm, satire, analogies, metaphors, & exacerbate a topic using COMMON SENSE based humor; all at once is a real killer for you types that can only process 1 emotion ….not a thought or logic based humor…but merely 1 emotion at a time. I think its hilarious the read your posts railing against the uber mild adjectives Rush uses in comparison to the vile ones your talking heads get away with! It personifies the EPITOME of the Liberals embodiment of total unfettered hypocrisy!
              Provides a good laugh…

              You can save yourself some time: I am FULLY aware of EXACTLY what Rush says… Just like I am fully aware of what your VILE liberal talking heads spew while they are engulfed by their disdain. I forgot the parenthesis in my added commentary on the Colbert comment … I made sure to NOT forget them in this one! Just like I am FULLY aware of the fact that your side uses the a multitude of excuses for the sh!t they pull to justify it because: ” How can it be unconscionable to the godless?” ” How can it be immoral to those without a moral compass? “. So…to sum up…it’s OK for the left to make a living degrading women, making fun of or spreading lies @ disabled children, & an anyone on the other side of the ideological rainbow, no holds barred under the excuse of satire! But Rush, BE DAMNED for making a living “bloviating” about items in the news cycle sarcastically…HMMM that’s a REAL hard one to figure out… I liken it to the left talkin trash about THEIR mother on the playground & that’s ok …BUT god forbid anyone else CHIME in because their FEINED outrage will invoke the GANG mentality! I posted the link to Colbert making excuses (which the left is full of) – But it is OK – It’s HOW they make a living & how left ENTERTAIN themselves –VILE VITRIOL– And don’t COLBERT & STEWART portray THEIR show as NEWS with the Visual Effects THEY use? I mean the news desk they sits at, the suits they wear, & the back drop — GET IT!?! See the ridiculousness?
              Stephen Colbert Clarifies His Sarah Palin Comments … “We should all come to her defense and say that Sarah Palin is a f—ing retard,” Colbert said
              Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/tv-movies/stephen-colbert-calls-sarah-palin-f-ing-retard-satire-claims-article-1.170925#ixzz2iYxT7L4T
              http://www.mediaite.com/…/stephen-colbert-clarifies-his-sarah-palin-comments-in...
              Jan 26, 2011 – Last week, Stephen Colbert went on a truly epic rant, absolutely skewering Sarah Palin. The genuinely amount of the insults leveled at the …

            • Ilee: I just think it’s hilarious that people who scream about political correctness turn around and cry crocodile tears if any irony is aimed at them.

              Instead of relying on nutcase website commentary, please watch the actual segment:

              http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/02/09/colbert-sarah-palin-is-a_n_454744.html

              This is so stupid.

              FIRST, Rahm Emmanuel DID use the term “r’ing retards,” but he was talking about LIBERAL DEMOCRATS, not Republicans.

              SECOND, Rush was complaining about political correctness, although as usual, he went overboard, in his retarded way (his quote is also in the above link).

              THIRD, What Colbert said was ironically in defense of Rush, saying, “Sarah Palin KNOWS that it is OK to call someone a ‘retard,’ if, like Rush, you clearly DON’T mean it–which is why we should all come to her defense, and say, ‘Sarah Palin is a f’ing retard.'”

              Don’t you get it? Palin said it’s ok to call someone a “retard” if you don’t mean it, so Colbert called her a “retard,” to prove that he didn’t mean it. Don’t you get it?

              Just watch the segment, and see if it doesn’t change your mind, including his pretending not to know anything without the teleprompter.

            • You will have to excuse me for not being able to DIRECTLY address your issue with my use of Colbert’s statement as an example in my point: I had 6 little kids all day today…

              I can ABSOLUTELY identify IRONY… For instance, its IRONIC for you to refer to my website link “the NY Daily News” as… HOLD ON …This is a QUOTE; ” relying on nutcase website commentary”… While you put up a link to the LEFTWING rag opine site “the Huffington Post”, as if that liberal site is credible…AND the irony of it all – neither site I used bashed Colbert in the article…oh wait…the other one by Mediaite that contained the video of BOTH skits in it? That one…it did not bash on Colbert either…But, of course you know that, because you read them.

              Now to the point: as I had to explain to TESS; I am all to aware of EXACTLY what Colbert said I watched it, I am aware of EXACTLY what Rush said, EXACTLY what Emanuel said, AND EXACTLY what Palin said…I am also aware of EXACTLY which order they came in…& finally the EXACT context. I am also quite keen on what the issue was with EXACTLY who said – what.

              Let me caveat the next paragraph, so that you do not proceed, to further misinterpret my point… I agree the whole damn thing is stupid. I don’t know Colbert personally & never claimed to …He could very well be the nicest neighbor any one ever had! I am also VERY well aware of his skits, his boss Jon Stewart, & his appearances on O’Reilly. I never JUDGED his personal character!

              With that said let’s do a little re-cap:

              1st: Emanuel kicks the whole thing off when used the term; this is an Exact quote:
              “those f#cking retards” END QUOTE..in reference to some in he & the Presidents base…Outcome: LIBERALS = non-issue because it was one of their own on the playground name calling… Palins issue: This is the Presidents Top-Aide setting an example/ precedent for other HIGHLY PAIDED Political Figure-heads?!?

              2nd: Rush then repeats what Emanuel said in his typically sarcastic, hyperbolic, satirical way…I happened to be listening that day & predicted the sh!t storm – he knew he was creating. (Did Rush actually call someone a ‘f*cking retard?) HOLD THAT THOUGHT. Outcome: LIBERALS = Freak out – because It isn’t one of theirs – its ABOUT one of theirs… This is evidenced by the FEINED outrage BLASTED all over the Leftist Opine sites, the web, & Tess’s post.

              P.s. I caught that little comment you made trying to bait me by calling Rush a retard-not your sucker ; )

              3rd: Palin is put on the spot & asked about it… Her response.. QUOTE: “They are kooks, so I agree with Rush Limbaugh,” when read a quote of Limbaugh calling liberal groups “retards.” SHE SAID; “Rush Limbaugh was using satire … . AND CAVEATED IT WITH; I didn’t hear Rush Limbaugh calling a group of people whom he did not agree with ‘f-ing retards,’ and we do know that Rahm Emanuel, as has been reported, did say that. There is a big difference there.” END QUOTE … Her spokesman releases a statement — “Governor Palin believes crude and demeaning name calling at the expense of others is disrespectful.”

              AND FINALLY; this was my point before the train COMPLETELY derailed…
              Colbert, with his skit …jumps into the Liberal gang fight with his comment calling Palin a “[email protected] retard” furthering it by his choice to use vulgarity… Knowing full well it would ignite the chest bumps from the left – how funny would it be if it were about the 1st lady?!? Oh… Wait she’s a leftist so the odds are about as good as winning Powerball!

              AGAIN, I never judged his personal character…you jumped the line because he’s one of yours — which only further made my point! Thank-you for that; )

              Because, if you remember, my original point was the hypocritical double standard the left has when it comes to their standards for media…Tess obsessing over every word coming out of Rush’s mouth waiting for a chance to pounce…railing against every little supposedly vulgar comment that never comes…BUT when asked about her side or the liberal talking heads that I listed off…she had nothing to say EXCEPT further post Rush & make excuses for the vulgarity on the left… Hell I didn’t even throw out Olbermann!

              I will apologize pre-emptively if any of this comes across as brash or lacking demur… I was smiling & laughing with grandbabies all day in-between writing this… So hopefully my sarcasm isn’t to thick ; )

            • Ilee: But that’s the whole problem. You claim I am “one of them” without knowing anything about me. I have been on here for more than a year. I’m a registered Republican. I was a Ron Paul supporter, because he had a comprehensive program, one that would have given all sides what they really wanted, and asked them to give in on things that didn’t matter to them.

              What I usually do here is try to temper things–and poke people who need it. And I bait Nate, since he falls for it every time, and he and I have enough history to let me get away with it.

              But, girl, you go off the rails, too. In the previous post, you tried to say that the fact that Stewart and Colbert are behind desks that they are fooling people that they are news reporters. Stewart is constantly saying he delivers “Fake News,” and it’s clear that Colbert is ridiculing Fox evening hosts, who are not delivering news, either.

              Colbert’s whole schtick is to ridicule the kindergarten graphics and “eye candy” on Fox. I wish we could go back to Edward R. Murrow, speaking directly into the camera, but now, Fox just unrolled another whole generation of techno-craziness. And their median viewer age is still 65.

              When Stewart went on Fox, they tried to get him to say he delivers news, and he kept saying, no, he’s a comedian.

              Somewhere else, you seemed to say Rush is a reporter, and he, too says NO, he’s an “entertainer.” And so is Bill Maher. Both of them go way overboard, and the only problem is that a lot of people take them seriously. Both of them are making matters worse.

              As for sources, it doesn’t really matter what the medium is, if it gives you the ORIGINAL source. I googled for the Colbert footage and LImbaugh footage, and HuffPost I found that had them. I didn’t go looking for HuffPost–I looked for the original source, and that’s where both Colbert and Limbaugh were.

              It’s like the other day, when I tried to find the original poll purchased by Rupert Murdock’s Wall Street Journal. I couldn’t find it at WSJ or even the pollster. The only place it was available–without comment–was the MSNBC site. I knew I’d take grief for that, but I wanted to provide a link to the original numbers, without commentary.

              It’s hard to believe that this thread is supposed to be about the government shutdown and closings.

            • Goethe,

              I NEVER said or implied, you went off the rails nor that you took the train off the rails… Go back, slow down, & read it… You’ll see for yourself 🙂

              I said: QUOTE; “AND FINALLY; this was my point before the train COMPLETELY derailed… ” END QUOTE

              I never said Stewart or Colbert ever claimed to be the news… Just like I NEVER said or implied Rush was…THE excerpt from MY post to TESS;

              QUOTE: “I really can’t understand the Liberal & clearly YOUR obsession with Rush other than; how’d you word that to Sam again? OH – that’s right, he must “hit a nerve in the truth somewhere” … He has NEVER claimed; (JUST like Colbert & Stewart) to be a reporter, a new broadcaster, or anything…” END QUOTE

              SO, you are either “deliberately” twisting what I did & didn’t say OR you clearly misunderstood what I said!

              LASTLY, I used the statement about their visuals in a VERY sarcastic way to prove a point to TESS in reply — to her assertion that — Rush was some how portraying himself as a “news commentator” : HER words not mine…

            • Ilee: And, likewise, I did not claim that you said those things.

              But you tell me if this is NOT you, saying Stewart and Colbert claim to be the news:

              “And don’t COLBERT & STEWART portray THEIR show as NEWS with the Visual Effects THEY use? I mean the news desk they sits at, the suits they wear, & the back drop — GET IT!?!”

              And, to repeat, I feel that Bill Maher and Rush Limbaugh are identically the same, except a mirror image. They both make matters horribly worse by stirring up hostility and disinformation among their followers.

              Jon Stewart is probably equivalent to Dennis Miller, neither one of whom pretend to be unbiased. They work hard to drive home their points.

              But Colbert is a “character.” He’s an actor playing a part. I check in from time to time, and it amazes me that he doesn’t ever break character. If he says something nasty, it is ALWAYS aimed at liberals, and the only reason he is not hated by liberals is that the things he says are so dumb that they think he won’t be taken seriously. It’s a very tricky part to play, yet he keeps it up night after night. AND people like Bill O’Reilly like him, because he is a truly generous and kind person, and it shows.

            • Goethe,

              If your reading comprehension prevents you from being able to identify HEAVY sarcasm to prove how ABSOLUTELY ridiculous the assertion being made is – by the person making it – in that case, TESS asserting that Rush some how proclaimed to be “the News”… ESPECIALLY when I predicated with the following statement just prior; (He has NEVER claimed; (JUST like Colbert & Stewart) to be a reporter, a news broadcaster, or anything other than…)

              Then you are EITHER ignorant to English emphasis, looking for a fight, or think you have me on “D” & playing head games! In the event you had not (YAWN) … Oh, excuse me … noticed – I got quite BORED with you & Tess for that matter ! Hence, why I had not post a DAMN thing … (BIG YAWN) …. In response to either of you at all today… When the psychosis of my debate opponent fails to continue to hold my attention… I move on!

              That, in the event that you are really lacking in the department of intuitive intellect… Can’t help you. In the event you are looking for a fight – that was a “cat scratch”! In the event you think you have me on “D” & want to play head games – You have SEVERELY misjudged your opponent & the grace I extended!

              Now, Sir, with all due respect… And I MEAN that …. You may proceed to got to hell ; )~ You may want to see if TESS would like to accompany you – I hear there is room for 2 more just like you!

            • Ilee & Goethe – You two play nice, now!! i enjoy Ilee’s comments and i enjoy bitching at Goethe and occasionally agree (it’s not often that a Libertarian/T.P. slightly to the right of Attila and and a slightly Liberal Libertarian will agree). Goethe? does that make you a RINO?

              anyway, wish Billy were back and you two continue warring, just stick around for the Dirty Old Man.

            • Sam: I try really hard to duck a label. The only thing I am consistent about is anti-war, but that’s a solid libertarian AND solid liberal stance. So even that is not a peg to hang me on.

              I suppose I’m a WINO (wonk in name only). And, as Billy would say, if he were here, “I’ll drink to that.”

            • Ilee…An update for you. Michael Bloomberg was not a life long democrat. As you said he entered the political arena in 2001 as a Republican, That means he was a registered Republican. In 2005, he became a registered Independent in order to be re-elected as the 108th mayor of New York City. Bloomberg is pro-choice and favored legalizing same-sex marriage. Like Ronald Reagan, he switched to the Republican party believing that would insure him the win, which it did. Arlen Specter did change party affiliations, so did Theodore Roosevelt, Strom Thurmond, Joe Lieberman, Jim Jeffers, Loretta Sanchez, Norm Coleman Jim Webb, Governor Rick Perry…the list is very long and surprising. It’s about like jockeying for position in a Walmart checkout line. That last line is to let you know that we, Independents, do have a sense of humor.

            • Tess, Goethe, Ilee – I still believe more liberal commentators are more ruthless, demeaning, and just plain mean than are conservative commentators. And, specifically Goethe, the commentators that hide behind satire are basically cowards and use the satire to demean their opposition and don’t have enough balls (or ovaries) to stand tall and vent their real meaning.

              Tess, you are no more an Independent than i am!!!!!!

              Because Low information voters are too caught up in their personal lives to really figure out who’s good and who’s un-good they take the MSM at their word which is often twisted into pseudo truth and misleading, but that is all the Low Information public has time for.

              It’s effect:
              http://conservativevideos.com/2013/10/ultimate-proof-liberal-media-bias-5-minutes/

            • Sam,

              You & I both know there is more scientific evidence to support the FACT, not theory, but undeniable fact that the Media on a whole is ABSOLUTELY biased! There is not a liberal alive that can PROVE otherwise & will not even attempt it! HeLL there is more evidence of Liberal Media Bias then there ever was to support the theory of Global Warming! Lol…

              Good Video, thanks for posting ; )

              I honestly don’t know which is worse, that they LEAVE out facts or the vile vitriolic spin they get away without consequence ?!?

              TTFN

            • Sam…Label me as you wish. This is what I believe… voting for just one party is a betrayal of my civic duty, There is good and bad to be said about any politician running for public office. Same can be said for all political parties. I do my very best to review their background, read their speeches, and watch the news to point out their flaws. I have voted for a lot of losers and a lot of winners that I would later regret. I confess that I once voted for Ron Paul…once for George H W Bush and twice for Bill Clinton. When these men were running for office I felt each was the best qualified person at the time. Blind faith is good for marriage but not for voting.

            • kudos for you Tess, i belong to the Libertarian Party and the Tea Party and donate to both, as well a monthly donation to Wounded Warrior’s project – but i am registered as a Independent. It is also obvious i am a conservative.

              And Tess, maybe you are an independent, but i have never seen you express or defend anything but a Liberal ideology.

      • Surfisher: A real kindergarten-quality comeback. Aren’t you embarrassed to write something so puerile?

        We would all be shocked and surprised if you ever added something constructive to a discussion, or gave a thoughtful response, or showed genuine respect (other than your typical, pompous, condescending pat-on-the-head).

  10. Goethe, I can agree ignorance is not isolated to just the color of ones skin & that poor people (not all speaking from my own experience) are ignorant to what goes on in the Presidential arena…but I will tell you the greater occurrence of ignorance & entitlement are in the ghettos of this nation created by the left & they have no, notta clue until it impacts their free food, free clothing, free housing, or free money.
    D.C is a sadly pathetic example that rivals Detroit! The District of Columbia’s fulltime population is predominately black & a large number well below poverty. The national mall you were so concerned about is littered by blacks pushing carts & sleeping on the benches. This, based on my own struggle to flee the proverbial poor plantation, is the example of ” the road to hell being paved by some Elitests good intentions”. You see the truth is that the leftist bleeding heart liberals lack their own sense of self so they create these abysses for the poor then stand around patting each other on the back & stroking their own ego’s… Walk away gloating about how good of a human being they are. Mean while back in the abyss, the people there are held captive by some other idiots good intentions, but it creates the voting base the left keeps ignorant & poor, but benefits them. You see most aren’t going to gamble on self sufficiently living in exchange for loosing what little they have been given for free. They aren’t going to risk paying their own rent & the sense of freedom & self worth when the Fed will pay their way. There is no other blatant example of this experiment of keep poor on the preverbial plantation than Detriot & D.C. Then you add insult to injury via the hypocrisy on the left in the education arena, they use this as their utmost political card, but check the reality! Example A: conservative Head of Education in D.C. Grants choice via vouchers, across the Board….finally inner city blacks get the opportunity to attend quality schools even top rated privates, Obama ends that program…but sends his black kids to private school, a common trend amoung the left, how else is the left going to continue to indoctrinate & control the plantation population if them black inner city kids get to be educated outside of their control? God forbide a poor black kid receive a quality education from a private school & leave the preverbial ghetto plantation & the left looses a voter! And so the cycle keeps being perpetuated by the Elitests.

  11. Goethe, I won’t jump on the pile on, but I will challenge you to read Dr. Ruby K. Payne’s book “A Framework for Understanding Poverty.”
    I read it ten years ago and it opened my eyes. As a child, living in an appalachian town, I saw first hand the differences in “attitudes” amongst the working poor. My father, a millwright mechanic, worked in a factory and NEVER missed a day of work in 35 years. Despite having to care for 4 children and a chronically ill wife. Contrast him to the neighbor who lived 4 houses up the street with his 7 children. He was the big boss’ son and had a job in the factory, only to loose it in 6 months. What set my Dad and him apart? Values/pride/and being responsible vs not responsible. The neighborman would load his wife in their station wagon and go to the Muskingum River everyweek with their twelve packs; cigarettes; and fishing poles. They would LEAVE their 7 children at home alone to fend for themselves, which meant that they would be pestering the neighbors for food and care. The neighbor and his wife ALWAYS had money for their entertainment (he collected disability), but their responsibilities went by the wayside.

    Dr. Payne does an excellent job explaining how our VALUES determine or destiny and whether or not we are responsible. It is about CLASS, because people with little hope tend to enjoy what they can and forget about everything else.

    I for one am VERY disappointed in the latest bill. Nothing has changed except to add 3 billion more dollars worth of pork to be paid by the over-worked middle class. Hell, Ohio gets a dam out of the deal! A project that has been given 4x the amount of the original cost. And you can’t tell me that Boehner didn’t fanangle that one?

    It is time for the MIDDLE CLASS to join together and PROTEST the FLEECING from both sides! How come there is ALWAYS money for MEDICAID and the EBT (electronic benefit transfer) card, but the politicians start THREATENING our SSI funds to scare us into obedience!

    Congress and the President ACT like ROYALTY!!!! Tell the people what they want to hear, but live LAVISHLY at our EXPENSE.

    The only ones that I respect are the 16 Senators who voted no on the BILL. They aren’t afraid to take on the ESTABLISHMENT!!!!!

  12. Goethe, It is FAIR to criticize when they want someone else to step in and take care of their responsibilities. The neighbor man and his wife ALLOWED their children to run the neighborhood un-supervised; hungry and a constant burden to all the other neighbors.

    Look at the Food stamp program—-It has grown 300x since Obama took office.

    Don’t you see a correlation between single, un-wed mothers (now collectively > 50%) and the rise of social programs?

    Yes, poor people do help each other more because they are more involved in each other’s lives. (Personally, I think that is a good thing).

    From one who “rose above her raisin”, I draw the line between giving someone a hand up oppose to a hand-out.

    I personally saw families who had strong work ethics, instill pride and responsibility in their children. They raised successful and productive citizens. The families who VALUED their own pleasure (smoked maryjane everday; excessive drinking; fished and turtled hunted during work days; owned the latest television/movies) raised irresponsible, lazy, and criminal children. How could two DIVERSE outcomes come from the same neighborhood where people had the same opportunities? Answer: VALUES

    • MUST SEE — superb 17 minute video by Ron Paul.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKKF5vfZKaE

      Concisely describes our current state as a nation, and what will inescapably follow.

      Make it viral — America needs to wake up, to comprehend the EVIL that is the Obama Administration. And Obama’s probable endgame to declare Martial Law, and thus suspend elections and finally achieve his goal since childhood to become King (look up video 3 at minute 5:45 — he writes on his school steps “King Obama” as a child)!

      The below is a MUST SEE — “Who exactly is Barrack Hussein Obama?”

      part one:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Og0Mq9Y1PM

      part two:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1PVXH5JJ3M

      part three:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opCfsJjPq_k

    • Daisy: I agree. But didn’t you say the neighbor is the son of a “big boss”? My guess is that is where the sense of “entitlement” came from.

      And a lot of the self-defeating behavior you mention comes from a sense of hopelessness. If you feel that it doesn’t matter what you do, why try? It would be nice if we had more things like the earned income credit, which encourages people to achieve.

      • The earned income credit is a sham that steals from some & gives to another and the only thing that tax credit incentivized is having more children one can’t afford to raise on ones own – to get the government bonus every year until the child turns 17! How the hell is that an incentive to over come ones birth status? This whole discussion can be summed up to WILL & VALUES! This nation is the only one on the planet that your socio-economic birth place is not where you are forced to stay. This is the only place that does not predetermine YOUR outcome based on what “class” you were born in! The opportunity is the same for all, the path is the same for all, the vehicle is the only difference! Example : one he has a trust fund pay for college, the other joins the military to pay for college, & the last has school scholarships & student loans… They ALL become President! Isn’t your precious Barack proof enough of that?!?
        AND since when do the poor have the corner market on “generosity”…. That in and of its self is an oxymoron ….you don’t have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of …. But some how you have a pot to give someone else? Generosity is not a value one aquires solely by being poor… It is a value instilled..I would pit any conservative you choose against any liberal – any day! I guarantee you the conservative has donated more of their personal wealth than the liberal. Because their values are different.. Again, your precious Barack will be my example; he came from poverty & what has he, or his wife done for the iner-city poor? Besides take away the D.C. Voucher program that gave those iner-city kids a shot at a quality education? The1st ladies contribution to helping give those in poverty a HAND UP….planting a garden at The White House to pluck a carrot from that she jets around the country on the taxpayer dime parternalistically shaking said carrot at us & chastising us on what we eat & feed our kids?… What does that say about their values? The hypocrisy No’s no bounds…. Case in point… They can eat Kobe beef flown in from Japan & Barack can smoke & eat burgers but the First Lady will chastise the rest of us about what we eat… This stems from their value system & the fact that the Liberals don’t believe that humans have the capacity to make decisions/choices for themselves unless it comes to infanticide! We can be trusted to choose which of our children live & die but not what we feed them once we grace said child with life!
        AND If, as you suggest, the poor are more generous than say Mr. Joe Shmoe middle class &/ or Mr. Big bucks then how do you explain the personal crime rate in those areas of the country, you mean to tell me the poor kid stole the Jordan’s to give to thy neighbor? How do you explain the common socio-economic factor among those incarcerated is being poor? Where they perpetrating crimes to share their take with the hood? NOT! Lack of hope is a cop out! More accurately put – it is a lack of VALUES & WILL… How else do you explain the night & day difference between the military base ghettos & the civilian ghettos? There is no more obvious socio-economic experiment than that one… On a military base there are values & consequence – conversely in inner-city ghettos there are is subculture lacking both of those!
        I was a poor teen mother before it was cool, I have lived among some of the lowest income working families in ghettos on military bases, & out in town ghettos among civilians…the ONLY factor in my over coming those circumstances was MY WILL & the VALUES my surroundings instilled in me, combined with a program President Reagan put in place to give a hand up and the incentive the House put in place with the welfare reform act that gave you no choice but to get off the system!

  13. Goethe the neighborman and his wife are now deceased. He made it to 60 before cyrrohis of the liver got him and she made it to 68 before she died of brain cancer. My father who is now 78 and never drank/smoked in his life is still alive.

    The neighborman was an alcholic as was is father. The only difference between the two is that the old man (the big boss) could still function in his job. He build a nice house that his son basically stole from his mother. His mother, bless her heart, worked until she was 85 to help support her son’s family.
    She was a cook at a department store downtown and would walk there most days (which was a 2 mile walk).

    I’ve heard it say that all alcoholics are narcissists, but not all narcissists are alcholics.

    Self-defeating behaviors actually stem from selfishness. Putting one’s self (endulging in pleasurable activities and never learning to postpone gratification) is the root of it.

    I’ve seen this concept play out more than I would care to have witnessed. While you see more of it in the lower-class society, it also is seen with “trust fund babies”. People who never had to work a day in their life.

    One’s self-esteem/self-worth comes from achieving! No one can give you achievement, for it must be earned!

    That is why self-defeating behaviors destroy self-worth/self-esteem. They are steeped in a selfish cycle of pleasure and not from lack of opportunities!

    You can take any successful person (strip them of all their assets) and drop them off in some random city. They will overcome the obstacles and become successful again!

    The asian culture clearing supports this! They will work night/day; live in sub-standard conditions (a cot in the backroom of a store)for the HOPE of becoming successful one day!

    • Daisy: Good post. But I still believe that often people don’t try because they don’t see success in real life. I think that’s the difference between poor Americans, who have only known poverty and failure, and foreigners, who arrive with stars in their eyes and think anything is possible. It’s about perception of opportunity.

      It’s not that there’s anything “wrong” with those who don’t try. They just don’t know any better.

      As an example, when I was a kid, I saw Perry Mason and the Defenders save people on TV. Made me want to become an attorney. Also saw Fred MacMurray as an engineer, and advertising executives in shows such as Bewitched. Those looked like interesting, exciting careers.

      But my mother’s family were all small farmers. And my dad was a factory worker, and very happy to have the job. My parents told me I should get a factory job and hold on for dear life. So I felt that I was of a CLASS that could not be a professional.

      If you don’t feel that something is possible, most people won’t think they can beat the system.

  14. Good points as well Goethe. The people who push out from their families early on are the ones who can “get above their raisin”. For many people this comes at a great cost ~ the loss of family. Some families don’t want to see their relatives get above them, for fear of loosing them and not having them around.

    I pushed out early because I wanted better for myself. Coming from a large family living in a 1000 sq foot house probably also had something to do with it! LOL

    Families can be toxic, no doubt. Because I was the curious type (had paper routes/babysat for professional people) I knew even as a teenager that I wanted more. And guess what…..I got more! I’ve worked very hard for what I have and I also can be content in all things. With very little or with excess. My grandmother’s favorite expression was: “Use it up, wear it out, make do or do without!”

    I also think alot depends on how you feel about your circumstances. The neighborman and his wife enjoyed their lives. They never complained or compared themselves to others. As long as they had money to buy fishing bait/cigarettes/beer, they were happy.

    Lastly, it is never to late to go back to school Goethe. If you aren’t a graduate of higher learning, you could be! CS Lewis once said “You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream.” God gave you an inquisitive mind, so make the most of it!

    • Thanks, Daisy. Very kind. Actually, my attorney has said the same thing. He says nobody brings him cases that are as unusual as what I bring in. And he says I always come up with interesting arguments. I used to be a high school teacher, so he said it wouldn’t take a lot to get a law degree.

      But I’m sure I’d spend all my time in jail for contempt of court. Judges seem so capricious and haughty–and sometimes, ignorant.

      • Goethe Behr — “high school teacher” now…before you claimed you were Big Time in Advertising. Which is true, kid…?

        An easy “Law Degree” for you — you cannot make a logical conclusion if hit over the head with a tome of Aristotle’s Organon…would this “Law Degree” of yours come along with a Mickey Mouse watch, kid…LOL!

          • Goethe Behr — you can claim to be anything on the internet… that does not make it necessarily true (that is Logic, kid).

            • Surfisher: You are a brainless bore and boor.

              Try posting something germane to a topic for a change, rather than another irrelevant, tedious attack.

  15. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HP2escR3qQ “Shit Asian Mom’s say”.

    Watch this video Goethe. See how many “life values” the Mom is expressing through shame and blame. She projects her own fears on her children, wanting them to do better. The book “Battle hymn of a Tiger Mother” also conveys a strict adherence to parental goals and objectives. http://abcnews.go.com/US/tiger-mom-amy-chua-controversial-book-parenting-guide/story?id=12767305

    Most of what we are comes from the way we were parented and what “life vows” we made at a young age. Remember Scarlett O’Hara’s life vow “As God is my witness, I will never be hungry again!”

    • The easiest solution TO STOP OBAMACARE FROM DESTROYING US, is to impeach Obama on his failure to provide a valid birth certificate, which he STILL refuses to do!

      Call your Reps AND ALSO FAX them the below (since phone calls never get you to your actual Representative) — FAX this:
      ———————————————————————————————–

      “We demand that an investigation be started in Congress BY YOU, dear Congressman, as to Obama’s failure to SHOW HIS ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE AS OF YET — no copies, please, since no US Citizen could get anywhere with a Copy, but MUST show the ORIGINAL (what makes Barrack Hussein Obama ABOVE the Law NOT TO DO what WE ALL American Citizens must do)!
      Why won’t Obama show his ORIGINAL Birth Certificate — “If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about!” (that is his mantra on the NSA spying on US)! So, what is Barrack Hussein Obama hiding from Congress and We the People — as per this video:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px9XtjUAIzs

      Dear Congressman, if you are unwilling to start such an investigation, be assured we won’t be willing to cast our votes for you come election time!”
      ———————————————————————————————-

      Fax this Patriot in my home state (and also your Reps):

      Texas congressman Steve Stockman:

      Fax: 202-226-0396

      • Surf: Your post has nothing to do with vets, memorials, or shutdown. Irrelevant, as usual.

        Nate already warned you about spamming from one thread to another. What part of “no” do you not understand?

        • Goethe Behr — you mean like the below post you copied and pasted on all previous threads?

          Get a life — lowlife. You are nothing here, but the forum’s #1 dolt…now that Tess Liehard is gone (if she comes back, then you’ll be a number two…again….).
          ————————————————————————————–

          Goethe Behr — October 5, 2013 at 1:35 pm ·

          “…Both houses just voted unanimously to pay government workers retroactively for time lost. I mean, it was a nice thing to do, for people who are being used as pawns.

          HOWEVER, how can Tea Party legislators rationalize paying people for NOT working?? Isn’t that exactly counterpoint to the Tea Party philosophy? If they’re not on salary, shouldn’t they be paid only for the hours they work?”

  16. Sam: I do see Colbert from time to time, if I’m skittering Netflix.

    Anybody who takes offense of this guy is just looking for something to complain about. He’s as mild-mannered as Bill Kristol. And, as I say, in playing his part, he says some horrible things about Obama.

    If you look at it as a conservative platform–but with a stupid spokesperson–it can be very entertaining for a conservative viewer. He says all the talking points, but the funny part is that he doesn’t understand what he’s saying.

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