Similar the IRS scandal, the NSA surveillance program will have implications heading into 2014 and 2016. No doubt this revelation bolsters the stock of libertarian-minded politician like Senator Rand Paul.

Report from CBS News:

Beginning this week, members of Congress intend to get answers from the National Security Agency about the legal justification it’s been relying on for its sweeping surveillance activities. Congress will get its chance to question the intelligence community with a series of briefings and at least two hearings this week, while a few members will meet Tuesday to consider a possible lawsuit in response to the surveillance revelations.

“I think it’s a constitutional issue, without a doubt,” Rep. Thomas Massie, R-Ky., said to about the NSA’s recently revealed tactics, which include the widespread collection of U.S. phone records from Verizon, as well as the collection of internet content from non-U.S. internet users outside of the United States. While the collection of internet content doesn’t target U.S. users, the NSA could capture information from Americans unintentionally.

“I don’t think the Constitution allows for broad sweeps of personal data of people who aren’t even suspected of doing anything,” Massie said. “As of this week, we now know that’s occurring.”

Sound off the NSA surveillance program…


  1. I stand with Rand on this one. If people are willing to bet the farm on a little so called security, well be careful what you wish for. This create a terrorist so you can arrest a terrorist is no coincidence in selling this “security” to the public. They have a goal here and I don’t think many are going to like it once achieved.

  2. NSA surveillance has struck at the heart of Amrircan economic strength. No longer will we be able to associate freely, no longer will we be allowed to let our ideas blossom unfettered from the chilling view of fascist censors. How tragic that this congress and this admiinstration has betrayed the fundamental freedom that brave men have fought and died for so bravely. Shame on this government, this preseident and this congress.

    • Ricahrd Winchester

      Amen and well said! I wish more people would wake up and realize that there is absolutely NO DIFFERENCE between a Democrat, Republican, Fascist, Socialist or a Communist. They’ve all govern the same and have totally abandoned Freedom and Liberty, while opting for tyranny, oppression and control! Greedy SOB’s – the whole lot of them!

  3. The Lies, Hypocrisy and Duplicity of Barack H. Obama (NSA Wiretapping Scandal)

    Video Excerpt from President Obama’s speech at the Woodrow Wilson Center in August 2007.

    “This Administration (Bush) also puts forward a false choice between the liberties we cherish and the security we demand. I will provide our intelligence and law enforcement agencies with the tools they need to track and take out the terrorists without undermining our Constitution and our freedom.

    That means no more illegal wire-tapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing more than protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient. That is not who we are. And it is not what is necessary to defeat the terrorists. The FISA court works. The separation of powers works. Our Constitution works. We will again set an example for the world that the law is not subject to the whims of stubborn rulers, and that justice is not arbitrary.

    This Administration (Bush) acts like violating civil liberties is the way to enhance our security. It is not.”

  4. Once the Utah data “Spy Center” is completed in Sept. 2013, our privacy ends! We have already seen the press; teabaggers; and other US citizens targeted by government agencies due to their associations and political leanings. The movie “Sneakers” made in 1992 foreshadows what is to come…..

    • The key will be to “blend in” with all the morons who don’t pay attention to this stuff, without succumbing to the government’s demands to take the mark.

  5. This is gonna rip the GOP apart. NeoCons will be falling all over themselves to justify and rationalize any and all attacks on privacy and liberty. Libertarians will line up with Liberals on this one, and Obama will give lip service to “national security,” but will probably do some sort of about-face, as they did with the “morning after” pill. A total political blood-bath of both parties. Don’t forget your popcorn.

  6. The USA Patriot Act is a law written by Wisconsin Republican Jim Sensenbrenner and passed by the United States Congress. In July 2005. The United States Senate passed the reauthorization bill with substantial changes to several sections of the act, while the House’s reauthorization of the bill kept most of the act’s original language. While Bush and Obama bear the shame of not vetoing these two bills, it is the members of the Senate and the House that authorized the use of indefinite detentions, law enforcement officers able search a home or business without owner’s or occupant’s permission or knowledge, allows the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) to search telephone, e-mail, and financial records without a court order, and allowing law enforcement agencies to search business records, including library and financial records without warrants. Have you heard one Senator or Representatiive personally apologize for voting for this Act? Have you heard of one Senator or Representative introducing a bill to repeal this Act?

  7. Will Obama and the Neocons KILL NSA Whistleblower, Edward Snowden? (Ron Paul thinks so…)

    Video Interview:

    Towards the end of an outspoken 24 hours of media appearances, former Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) appeared via phone on Fox Business Network with Melissa Francis and made a bold prediction about NSA leaker Edward Snowden’s future. “I’m worried about somebody in our government who might kill him, with a cruise missile or a drone missile.”

    “”We live in a bad time where American citizens don’t even have rights and that they can be killed,” Paul continued. “”But the gentleman is trying to tell the truth about what’s going on, he is not defecting, there’s no signs of that happening. It’s a shame we’re in an age where people who tell the truth about what the government is doing gets into trouble.”

    Paul said he “absolutely” feels confident that Snowden has no intention of selling more U.S. secrets to a foreign government as some have feared. “”I don’t think for a minute that he is a traitor,” Paul said. “”Everybody is worried about him and what they’re going to do and how they will convict him of treason and how they’re going to kill him, but what about the people who destroy our Constitution? What kind of penalty are those individuals who take the Second or the Fourth amendment and destroy it? What do we think about people who assassinate American citizens without trials and assume that’s the law of the land? That’s where our problem is.”

    When presented with the recent polling figures that show 56% of Americans support the NSA’s surveillance practices, Paul suggested those sentiments can be attributed to “propaganda” along the lines of “”if you’re not “for” NSA spying on people, then you’re un-American, you’re unpatriotic, you hate America.”

    The Neocon Nazis just LOVE using that line! LOL!

    • DT: We expect NeoCons to call people “un-American,” because, truth be told, THEY are the ones who are as un-American as Joe McCarthy (I remember watching the Army hearings on TV).

      We expect that.

      What really bothers me is that MOST Americans constantly say, “if you’ve done nothing wrong, you don’t need rights.” And, of course, what they don’t understand is that the real risk is something, anything, that might be inconvenient or awkward or embarrassing, and can somehow be labeled as “wrong.”

  8. Tess

    Have YOU come to the conclusion yet that the Democrats and the Republicans are the one-in-the-same “Army of Tyrants” who will “hastily and secretly” pass ANY law that will take-away (or remove) your INDIVIDUAL Rights, Freedoms and Liberties – all in the name of “National Security”?

    If you haven’t come to that conclusion – then you should really stop your belly-aching!

  9. To present facts is not, as you so crudely expressed yourself, belly-aching. I have the right to speak my thoughts without being bombarded with your rancor. I appreciate witty, clean debate but don’t write me, or write about me again.

    • Tess: Don’t take it personally. DT was just all wound up about the spying on us, and a full dozen years of NeoCons telling us we have no right to privacy, jury trial, free speech, etc., etc., etc.

      Anyway, I’m sure he was talking about “you” plural, as in “all of us,” and not you, personally.

      And, of course, YOU are right–that Congress has the duty to pass laws–or not. They try to abdicate their responsibility as much as they can—until it gets to issues that affect their buddies. Then, they’re suddenly indignant. And, likewise, Bush and Obama have had the duty to veto laws that are just not right, and they have not done so.

      And, finally, belly-aching is the first step to action. . . .

        • DT: I agree with RP. Except that they are not “defending Obama.” The program started under Bush, and they know it would come back to bite them. But it’s not really a partisan issue. There are plenty of NeoCon Democrats, too.

          But I would disagree with you a little bit about the parties being EXACTLY the same. Both are “vanilla,” but one is vanilla with fruit, and the other is vanilla with nuts.

      • DT: Good one.

        Tuesday night, Steven Colbert summed it up the NeoCon argument this way:

        …………………”The terrorists hate us
        ……………….because of our freedoms,
        ……………so all we have to do to be safe
        …………… ELIMINATE our freedoms!”

          • DT: NeoCons think they are being “patriotic” because they want to see American power in every corner of the world, controlling everyone and everything–inside the country as well. In ancient times, they wouldn’t like the Roman Republic. They’d only like the Roman Empire. Republic be damned.

            • Goethe

              True. But in recent history, their methods of mass murder of innocent civilians is more likened to Hitler and Nazi Germany. What’s ironic is that the Zionists in Israel (led by King Bibi), are all “on-board” with this kind of killing. The Zionists have hijacked Judaism, like the Neocons have hijacked Western Christianity. It’s sickening! But the Bible is clear in that only a remnant will be saved.

            • DT: How about Syria? The media was after Obama to commit to war there, and at every news conference, they kept asking, “when can we go to war? how can we go to war? how can we force you into going to war?” Finally, he made the mistake of answering that if Assad used LOTS of chemical weapons ALL over the place, then that would be a “game changer.” He didn’t say that would do it, he just said if the place were swimming in poisonous gas, that would change our opinion. But of course, that was enough for them to look for anything–such as tear gas–which could be claimed to be “chemical” weapons. It is all so predictable. . .

            • DT: Actually, I don’t think so. I think Obie just backs away from the bold moves he wants to make, such as closing Gitmo. I’m also not so sure Bush was a NeoCon. It just took him six years to realize Cheney was leading him down the wrong path.

              But the result is the same. The pawn of a NeoCon still acts like a NeoCon.

            • Goethe

              Neocon, Lindsey Graham says Ron Paul’s Policies ‘A Threat to America’! WOWSERS! This goofball, along with John McCain, need to retire ASAP. It’s CLOWNS like these, who have destroyed our Country from within by leading us into illegal wars and by spending us into oblivion.

              Especially McCain. What a hypocrite! He calls government spending that places our children’s children children into debt – immoral and defines it as “generational theft” – yet, it’s a-okay when he (McCain) votes for spending (and more spending) which continually grows the national debt through “policing of the world” by our military.

              And anybody, like Ron Paul, who wants to limit the government and do something about our never-ending “borrowing and debt”, is called a “threat”….Go figure!


            • DT: It’s Lindsay Graham who is a threat to America. Yet, he knows how to sidestep the phrases that will get him into trouble. He says,

              (1) Ron Paul is not a threat to America, his policies are. How twisted can you get? That’s like saying, Hitler was no threat, just his policies. What idiocy.

              (2) When asked if it’s ok to donate money to Ron Paul, he says that’s just “exercising their right to participate in the political process.” But if you are donating to the dissemination of someone’s “dangerous” policies, isn’t that dangerous?? The reason he used that twisted logic is that “participating in the political process” means “giving money” to dregs like Graham. Pump all the corrupting money you want into the system, just don’t do anything of the “grassroots” sort, because THAT would be “dangerous.” Dangerous to him and his cronies, that is.

            • DT part 2:

              As for McCain, he never saw a war he didn’t like. We have always given him extreme deference because of his POW experience, but that was almost a half-century ago. I think he’s used up his credit.

              His current campaign to have us support al Qaeda against Syria is just mind-boggling. It’s a civil war, for crying out loud.

              During our civil war, the powerful British were asked to come in, on the side of the South. Then France would likely have supported the North. The Germans would probably have supported the North, since we had a solid German population, especially in Pennsylvania (and German very nearly became our national language).

              The Spanish might have supported the South, joining with Mexico, to get back California, reopening the Mexican-American War. Russia still owned Alaska then, so they might have joined the south, too, so that they could claim all or part of Canada. That would have technically put them on the side of the South, and the British and Canadians would have attacked the North from the north. So it would have been France, Germany, and Russia against Britain/Canada, Spain/Mexico, and possibly the Ottoman Empire, and the Persians might have liked another crack at the Russians. In short, THAT could have become the “First World War,” a half-century early. And in the end, the North may have become a British colony again, while the South went its own way. . .

              People like McCain don’t think actions have consequences. . .

            • Addendum:

              On second thought, the South likely would have become at least a de facto colony of European powers, since it had no real industry, and had massive raw materials (not to mention, free farm labor). They would have had war debt to pay off, too, and so, as usual, the bankers would have really “won” that war, too.

            • Goethe

              Didn’t Lincoln mortgage the South to cover the war debt? Thus, the real reason Lincoln was killed was because of the International Bankers didn’t approve of his Greenback. Bankers are always starting wars. There is a special corner of HELL specifically for the Greedy Money Manipulators.

            • DT: Yeah. . .right. . .just like they “paid” for almost bringing down the entire world economy. They’re not even embarrassed by it.

              You can be sure that the “special corner of hell” will somehow be furnished and accessorized and outfitted better than anything heaven has to offer.

  10. All your name calling is amazing! Libs and Conserves both oppose and support – magically for all different reasons. This ability came about with Eisenhower and was updated by Executive Order with every POTUS since and Bush really did it with the Patriot Act after 9/11. Obama vowed to take it down as a Senator but instead he expanded it. ISP’s and Major social medias keep a certain level and time of data backup on all it’s customers anyway and is supposed to be part of “Privacy”.

    The key is The 4th Amendment!!! Without probable cause and a warrant ok’d by FISA. Theoretically the data (correspondence / pix / phone records) should be in the archives of the providers. The government programs that collect all this (supposedly doesn’t look at it, without probable cause) data should be rhetorical from the providers.

    So Liberals do you have faith in your beloved Obama. Liberals didn’t believe Bush would obey the 4th Amendment. Conservatives are only concerned about adherence to the 4th Amendment but worried that this administration won’t obey the 4th and will use the data for political advantage or even worse to push toward a one party solution in America.

    • Sam: “Name calling”? What “name calling”?? Calling a “spade” a “spade” is not “name calling.”

      By the way, I was channel surfing when I was in Grand Rapids, and they have a liberal radio station. I didn’t know there was such a thing. Anyway, the point is that the entire programming is a complaint about how conservative Obama is. They totally trashed him the whole time I listened. If they hadn’t used his name, I would have thought they were talking about Bush. Clearly, liberals don’t think Obama is one of them.

    • Sam

      Still “stuck” in that Right/Left paradigm, I see.

      OK. I’ll bite and I’ll just say this. Conservatives and Liberals have been very very VERY inconsistent on defending the Constitution. It’s always been when “their guy” is in Office, keep silent – and when the other guy is in Office, raise Holy Hell. That why Fox News does so well when Democrats Rule-the-Roost.

      We all know that Conservatism and Liberalism are just “factions” of the Republican and Democrat Parties, respectively. However, it’s only the Libertarians who have been consistent on how BIG Government has been decimating the Constitution, and now the 4th Amendment. The trouble is that the Neocons, who disavow the Constitution and control the Republican Party, have NO ROOM and NO TOLERANCE for Libertarians who would like to bring this Country back to a Constitution Republic. The Democrats have always, always, ALWAYS stood for Socialism and BIG Government solutions to every single problem. The Republican Party used to stand for Individualism, Capitalism and the Constitution – but sadly, not anymore. And when the Libertarians try to “sound-off” about this, the Republican Party Neocon “Establishment” just calls them names and then they pass “rules” that FORBID any Grassroots involvement.

      The best thing to do, for people who are Conservative, is to TURN OFF the Main Stream Media, especially Fox News, Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh. These programs and these people are not, not, NOT Conservative, by any means. They are nothing but BIG Government Neocons who never seen a war they didn’t like – the Constitution, the National Debt and the Bible be D A M N E D!

      • DT: Yeah, it’s really laughable how each party claims to be the “holy defender” of the Constitution when they are OUT of power–and tear it to shreds when they are in power. Of course, each party also has “fetish” sections of the Constitution, which they defend to the death (ours, not theirs)–while tearing up the parts the other party likes.

        • Goethe – the parties defend it differently. Liberals want to interfere with the Constitution and rights and progressively interpret it to their liking. Conservatives want leave it as is and live within the constraints (or freedoms). It is just fine the way it is. So by definition whoever is in power, the other party will bitch and moan about what’s wrong.

          • Sam: That’s not really true. That’s the old “strict constructionist” argument, which, to paraphrase you, is an outdated concept. So-called “Conservatives” are also “activist” judges when it comes to their fetish issues, with corporations being people, money being speech, establishment of religion being just wonderful–but only if it’s THEIR chosen religion, foreign entanglements & war declaration, states’ rights, full faith and credit, habeas corpus, press freedom, right to privacy, speedy trial, enumeration, voting rights, and even “natural-born,” if they’re taking about one of heir buddies. To suggest that so-called “conservatives” value the Constitution more than so-called “liberals” is fantasy.

            • I didn’t mean for it to be construed that way – liberals value the Constitution but think it can be improved on and modernized. Conservatives don’t want to change it, Live with it. the people that wrote it knew what they were doing and wrote it for the long term. All the other stuff you said is no more fk’d up than Liberals values of communism, collectivism, and socialism, all for one and one for all, but no clue who or how to pay. Extremes either way are not solutions.

            • Sam: And that was my point. They’re all hypocrites.

              Case in point is the filibuster. Basically, I still think Rand Paul is a power hungry opportunist, and I believe his recent filibuster was a publicity stunt, but even so, (a) it was for a good cause, and (b) it was done in the proper way, so I applaud him.

              Our senators should not be primarily obstructionists. But if they feel strongly about something, yet are in the minority, they should have to stand up there and speak. If they are right, maybe the public will support them, and push other senators to agree. But this idea that all you have to do is mention the MAGIC WORD to dictate to the majority half the time is just plain wrong.

              And of course, sissy Reid doesn’t want to do anything about it, because he knows when they’re in the minority, he’ll want to be just as counterproductive.

              I fully support the filibuster concept–as the last hope of the minority to stop the steamroller. But it should come at a cost and risk, so it is used sparingly.

              The Founding Fathers would have been appalled to see the partisan depths to which we have sunk. Remember that George Washington spoke forcefully against the very concept of political parties.

            • Goethe – I concur with everything you said. I am a strong Rand Paul supporter and agree with him on almost all issues. I wish it would have been legal for father-son to run for president/vp. I am not strong on filibusters because they are usually pure political in nature vs letting a bad proposal pass that would not be good for the country. Also filibuster is a Minority tool. The hardest part is what is good and right for the Country and by whose reckoning.

              G. Washington was kinda on to something and when it was kinda one party, the runner-up became VP – what they found was politically they were alienated and so strife constantly until the two parties form and a form of checks and balances. As time went on partisanship became the norm and the civil war tore a hole in our fabric that to this day patching is still necessary.

              Opaqueness and distorted truths becomes the communication to ‘we the people’ and more and more the media becomes the communication – for more than forty years.Along comes internet and an explosion of ??INFORMATION?? for anyone with access and a de-scrambler. Sadly who do you believe. You have to find a political expert (un-biased???) to interpret.

              Somewhere after ‘Nam, Media and education decided that Republicans were war mongers, did not give civil rights. (Kennedy/LBJ took us in.and Nixon took us out) so the hardcore media – left biased was born.- Republicans are bad for the country and never consider the poor urban and underprivileged and homeless. Daddy Warbucks says fk you.

              BTW – if you have ever lived homeless in an old beat car, and even if you had an interview, where to shower and get to it. exude confidence to win. damn unpleasant journey.

              Republicans are still stuck in the paradigm Goethe described earlier – and the scholastically Left will never give up, even if the MainMedia tempers just a little bit.. FNC averages about 1.5Mega viewers the ABC/CBS/NBC still avg 5 times that each. They control the general public!!

              we need the $$ of Gates, buy two of the netwoks and blast Libertarian platform and why it’s best for the country. FOX would buy in. with the two party’s being GOP and Libertarian we would never have to worry about going broke, the stick would be so big no on would even attempt to come after us, our technology would grows IAW Moore’s law.



    • Goethe & DT – Gentlemen, I’ll take a fall for using, “name calling”. Actually it was just one word, “neocon”. I think that word is arcane, while used frequently by the two of you, I believe it out of date and has more meanings than just what you apply to it. The Republican party is so fractured it is divided into multiple political agendas. At the core members still support the platform but at the same time the fragmentation is huge and the politicians are trying to come up with ways to bring votes to their party.

      The Tea Party’s influence on the Republicans is big but has its own problems. Instead of focusing on morals and Spirituality (whether genetically or creation driven) they focus on fundamental Christianity. This is not where the suburban Grassroot’s thoughts lie. This group (suburban grassroots) is satisfied with religious privacy according to the 1st Amendment. Nor does Tea Partyiers relate to urban Grassroots who are mostly Democrat Socialists and have no particular allegiance to America.

      DT – I can agree with most of your assessment and retort to me. Except I think (with the exception of Obama and McCain) everyone else is tired of war and borders on wanting to become isolationists. Re. the Middle East – Palin said it best, “we should stay out of the Middle East – Syria, and let Allah figure it out” and I definitely endorse that. Losing a Far East and two Middle East wars should symptom enuff.

      Politically Liberal / Conservative – Democrats / Republican – there are definite major differences and most Democrats are in fact devout Liberals who want big government and a progressive society. They have pretty much stuck together since Clinton.
      I don’t know if you two are pure Libertarians or not, but until ABC, CBS, NBC come on board there is no way we stand a chance of winning an election or even gaining “we the people” favor under a Libertarian flag.

      FOX (FNC) is still conservative based but Murdoch has introduced and included several Liberal and Democrats news correspondents into the mix. The hosts are all still conservative but FNC does abreast of what is really happening real time in DC and politics. Conservative et al. Still necessary to go to the MainMedia URLs to look at stories to understand how the MainMedia is Liberally influencing the general public and occasionally to MSNBC to hear their twisted thoughts. I agree that Hannity’s and Limbaugh’s plumb bob is pretty screwed up.

      Goethe – every major city has at least one liberal station. Right now the Liberal / Democrats are confused. Their leader and savior is not even leading from behind he is all but silent. His loving mainstream media is trying very hard to keep his crown on by attacking multiple facets of the Republicans. They still think there is an election next month. And everytime the Administration leaks something to defuse away from Benghazi it turns into a major scandal. All of which are still unresolved and now of course Michelle says lets go spend $100M visiting Africa. If you’re a Lib you can remember happier times.

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