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All these hot-button issues wrapped up in the case of Trayvon Martin and George Zimmerman, where does one begin? Obviously this case itself has captured the nation’s attention for the time being but does any of this translate into 2014? For example, could President Obama use this case as an argument in favor of gun control or other issues which could help energize the liberal base?

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Report from the Daily Caller:

The White House’s press secretary strongly signaled Tuesday that President Barack Obama will back out of the George Zimmerman controversy, amid public outcry and a handful of violent protests that could damage his chance of winning back the House in 2014.

“The president does believe we should have an ongoing conversation about [race] in our communities and churches and in the public square,” Carney said, pointedly excluding a White House role.

Obama is trying to boost turnout by women in the 2014 election, partly by using shooting controversies to demand demand gun-control laws that will be opposed by the GOP. In turn, the inevitable GOP opposition can be used to portray the GOP as a threat to suburban peace.

One option for Obama’s aides is to portray the shooting and resulting verdict as a caused by racial discrimination, justifying large-scale federal intervention in Americans’ social lives, workplaces and education centers.

So man facets to this case and new information continues to stream out even though we’re several days past the “not guilty” verdict being delivered.

51 COMMENTS

  1. Anything that leads to the erosion of our constitution is a potential threat to law abiding citizens. Obama would be well advised to leave this one alone and not use it for leverage against the 2nd amendment.

    While law abiding folks should have nothing to fear from deeper background checks when purchasing firearms, I said….”SHOULD”.

    History repeatedly teaches us that such “minor” infrngements of oyr privacy rights opens the door to further, and in many instances, far too intrusive probings beyond “what is good for the population majority.

    The Zimmerman case, while being a point of contention among those vocal about gun control, is really just one example of one person with one gun…..and his judgement regarding the use of that gun.

    Defining our constitution based on one highly publicized case is a mistake.

    Personally, I take any attack on my rights basedbon the actions of mentally unstable and/or criminal behavior, to be more of a power grab mentality rather that that of a reasonable person with the “good of the whole” in his/her heart.

  2. The Zimmerman case sure seemed simple enough as I think there were only about 140 words that covered self defense on the Florida books but them shyster lawyers injected so much more into this it became all smoke and mirrors. Then with 6 emotional hairpins on the jury I can’t believe it took only 16.5 hrs to go over those 140 words covering self defense.

  3. The Liberal Media and the leadership of the black community say that ONLY WHITES can be Racists. Why do you think you never hear of a minority being a “Racist” or committing a “Racist” Act? Dr. Eric Dyson says it’s “impossible” for a minority to be Racist. Prejudice. Yes. Racist? No. Really? What jibber-jabber! Like one is better than the other…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ0QfLkjujY

    But I think Pat Buchanan tells Dr. Dyson, the way it REALLY is… It’s time for some TRUTH to spoken around here!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=65KyX9afOEU

  4. Since it is not against the law (in the United States) to assume, many repeat non factual thoughts and words as facts. The Social Media shares the most responsibility for making this a black/white affair than either participant in the case. George Zimmerman’s mother was a Peruvian (land of the Inca’s). On voter registration forms, George Zimmerman identified himself as Hispanic, while his father, Robert, listed himself as white. What did all this make Zimmerman….simply an American. Tryvon Martin was of the black race and what did all this make him….simply an American. Thanks to the age of electronic, many assume they know something that is simply guesswork. That is why we have a court system.

  5. I forgot to complete my last sentence. It should have read “That is why we have a court system and 6 emotional hairpins.”

    • Please clarify…

      Is the word “hairpin” a slang word for a woman? And with the adjective “emotional” tied to it – what does this mean? Is this a sexist term used to describe a woman and her state-of-mind “if” she sits on a jury? Is the implication, then, that she cannot rightly determine guilt or innocence objectively, because she is emotional – or an “emotional hairpin”?

  6. I think this topic is way too wide to intelligently discuss. It would have been better to pick any of a dozen legal issues, OR any of many racial implications, OR any of many firearm issues. My guess is that this topic will devolve into chaos. Early comments are already all over the map.

    That being said. . .
    The thing that surprised me about the aftermath was that there wasn’t much of a reaction to the verdict. I think that may have been because (a) the case was thoroughly discussed for a year, and (b) the case was a muddled mess, anyway.

    I am currently involved in pleading a local case, so I’m more focused on the legal issues–totally aside from the race, rights, and firearm goulash.

    It was notable that the “stand your ground” law was not even mentioned. OR–maybe I should say that it WAS considered, but the jury wasn’t smart enough to realize it. Big mouth juror “B-37” told CNN:

    “When George confronted him . . . he could have walked away and gone home.”

    –That is the very ESSENCE of the “stand your ground” law–that is, if you feel threatened, you have a right to attack. Yet, she asserted that he did not. And I think that’s why the defense cleverly avoided the topic, since the judge legally had to bring it up for them–without discussion–in the final directions to the jury.

    Another thing is that the jury heard extensive direct testimony straight from Zimmerman’s mouth, recorded and packaged and presented in the form of recordings of his account of the killing. The effect was the same as if he had been on the stand, telling his side of the story. Yet, since it was not live, it was somehow not considered “testimony,” and so, there was no opportunity for cross examination. At the end of the trial, Zimmerman was asked if he wanted to take the stand, and he said no. Some people were surprised by that. I wasn’t. He would have been an absolute fool to get on the stand.

    The third point, from a legal standpoint, was something else juror “B-37” said on CNN–that the ONE point that made the MOST impact on the jury–from the whole trial–was the comment by a cop who said he thought Zimmerman was probably telling the truth. The problem with that is that the one comment that made ALL the difference, was officially stricken from the record by the judge.

    I have always felt that having someone say something powerful to the jury, and then have the judge say, “oh, shucks, pretend you didn’t hear that,” is ridiculous. I can tell you, if I were arguing in front of a jury, I would wrack my brain, thinking about what ONE point would be the most impact in the jury’s mind, and then find someone who could “plant” it into the trial. They really can’t “unhear” it, so it doesn’t have to be “on the record” it just has to be in the jury’s heads.

    So, the combination of (a) letting the judge make the “stand your ground” argument without discussion, (b) getting the defendant into the trial, but not on the stand, and (c) inserting a point that cannot be made, legally, was a 1-2-3 punch that the prosecution didn’t see coming.

    • O’Mara brought up why he didn’t bring up the stand your ground in court but I didn’t understand it. Anyhow the part he wanted was contained in the jury instruction under the self defense so he got what he wanted but I doubt if anyone of those clucks pick up on it. Like not one of the got the knock, knock joke

      • Billy; That “knock-knock” joke was the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard in a courtroom. I have to admit that I thought it was mildly amusing when I had heard it TWO WEEKS before, on the radio. When I heard that cluck use it IN COURT, I though Zimmerman was doomed. He was telling it TO the jury, and in that venue, he was telling them that THEY were ignorant, because “normal” people were familiar with the case.

        The only thing I can figure is that that joke was intended to do two things: (1) make the prosecution overconfident, and (2) make the jury feel sorry that Zimmerman was being defended by such a dumbass.

  7. Addendum: I just realized that having the point stricken from the record was even better for the defense. First, it signaled to the jury that the judge considered it an important point, and Second, since it was stricken from the record, it could not be rebutted by the prosecution

    This trial deserves a college course.

  8. The current administration wants any means possible to take away our 2nd amendment by virture of the populace demanding it! Just like
    the massacre at Sandy Hook, they were quick to insert their new proposed gun laws. Fasten your seatbelts because a new and even sordid trial is underway. http://thegrio.com/2013/07/16/john-henry-spooner-case-wisconsin-man-faces-trial-for-shooting-13-year-old-black-boy/

    The case of John Spooner gunning down an innocent 13 year old black boy because he thought he was stealing his guns, when the kid was just taking out the trash. Mr. Spooner is 75 years old and has declared “mental illness at the time of the shooting” as his defense.

    To me that shooting is worse than the Trayvon Martin case. Trayvon wasn’t the angelic “child” that the media manufactured. In fact, he was a thug-wanta-be with the self appointed moniker “no-limits-nigga” and he was suspended three times during his last school year. Once for excessive tardiness; once for writing “WTF” grafitti on school property and once for having traces of marijuana in his book bag. The grafitti bust is when they found 12 pieces of women’s jewelry and a man’s watch. All items reported missing from a home 1/2 block from his high school. The drug suspension occurred a week before his “visit” up north to Sanford, Florida. Both he and his father resided in Miami Gardens, Florida. They had just went that weekend of his death for a visit. So Travyon did not reside at the Retreat at Twin Lakes and was so “un-known” that his body laid under a tarp for 4 hours un-indentified. Dad and girlfriend must have been out past 11 p.m. because Dad did not report Trayvon “missing” until 8:00 a.m. the next morning. His reason: He thought that Trayvon might have went to a movie with his 20 year old cousin that lived in the area. Never mind, a 14 year old boy ~ Chad Green who was left alone by himself. What was un-believable to me, is that NO ONE in Brandy Green’s (the girlfriend’s house) knew about the killing! Even though it took place 300 yards from her condo. In an interview with Craig Rivera, Ms. Green told him that she never “heard” about any robberies/crime in the complex, despite living there for 4 years!

    The jury found George not guilty of murder because of these two things: 1. Whoever was screaming for help, called out 14 times. Both Trayvon’s parents (upon initial playing of the tapes) both said it wasn’t their son’s voice. They recanted their statements later.
    2. Travyon had 4 minutes (the jury heard 4 minutes of planned silence during the trial to gage how long it was) to return home before the fight ensued. He also left the 7-11 at 6:30 p.m. and could have been home by 6:45-6:50 p.m.. The 7-11 video also showed 3 young males in gangsta attire (hoodies; turned ball caps; baggy pants; hard *ss swagger) entering the store 1.25 minutes after Trayvon. They purchased a girlie magazine and cigars (possibly to make “blunts”). Travyon is seen on the video walking backwards looking in the store at them. Trayon’s purchase of “skittles” and “Arizona watermelon punch” are 2/3 ingredients used in a street concoction called “Lean” or “Drank”. The third ingredient needed is cold medicine. Travyon’s autopsy revealed a damaged liver, indictive of abuse of such concoction.

    If Eric Holder and the Justice Department succeed in prosecuting George Zimmerman for civil rights infringements, then we truly are headed for a totalitarian state. Remember that “Hilter” was elected and how much he changed Germany in twelve years!

  9. Trayvon was just a comom incident and also a self defense if OBAMA use it……well, we need guns!

  10. : “Knock knock. Who’s there? George Zimmerman. George Zimmerman who? All right. Good. You’re on the Jury.”
    Everyone loves a knock knock joke and Don West used this old cliche to reach out to the jury as a friend might.do. I think he was telling the jurors that he understood they knew who George Zimmerman was. He had created his first bond with the jurors. What bothers me about this case: the man who watched the fight from his window, the person Trayvon was talking to on the cell phone, the person who heard the screams, and others who didnot come forth but surely knew something was wrong, yet no immediate calls to 911. Trayvon Martin’s family didnot call the police until 8:30 the following morning.The newspapers and TV referred to Trayvon as a child when he was over 6 foot tall and a few months short of an eighteenth birthday making him a man. He was using a gated community as a short cut going home. George Zimmerman was part of a neighborhood watch which probably gave thoughts of being a policeman. It appears both men were looking for trouble.

    • Bingo, that’s what neighborhood watch is all about, looking for trouble. They do it in their cars, golf carts and on foot. When they see trouble they call the police. If they suspect trouble they call the police. If in doubt they just keep an eye on you.

  11. Has this country gone mad? Does the election of a black president unsettle the majority mentality to the point of damning the country to spite Obama. The Zimmerman murder has brought ‘hate’ out of corners and cranies that were remote. Some try to rationalize by referring to ‘black crime on crime.’ Herein is a point. Zimmerman’s great grandfather was a black man–it shows; his mother is decidedly ‘colored.’ So by American standards Zimmerman is ‘black.’ So, its another ‘black on black crime’ I guess, and generally in such a situation the perpetrator gets off.

    • Might want to run that by Mrs Alexander in Florida a time or two. She got 20 years for a black on black crime and no one got hurt and nothing was taken.

      • The case of Marissa Alexander has to do with gun control laws since the aggravated assault she committed was done so using a weapon which carries a mandatory minimum. Also, she retreated from the area (her kitchen), then returned with a firearm and discharged it. Under the law, she didn’t stand her ground, she retreated, then she decided to return and re-engage her ex-husband. At no point was she “cornered” in this scenario since she during the trial is was determined she could have easily exited the residence through the garage or either the front or back door. Her 20 year sentence is due to a mandatory minimum since a firearm was involved.

        If you flee the scene, then choose to return, it makes it hard to argue you feared for your life and acted in self-defense if you decided to return.

        This case is apples & oranges compared to GZ and TM.

        I’m surprised billy you let the media inform you on this case instead of reading the facts yourself. You know you don’t get the whole story unless you seek the truth.

        • I don’t see where I stated anything incorrectly. The real victim hare is the taxpayer who is going to pick up a lot of tabs here unless she is sprung.

          i

  12. Marissa Alexander had never been arrested before she fired a warning bullet into a wall one day in 2010 to scare off an abusive husband. She was estranged from her husband, Rico Gray, and had a restraining order against him, even though they’d had a baby together just nine days prior. Thinking he was gone, she went to their former home to retrieve the rest of her clothes and the children’s clothing. Here was a woman still recovering from childbirth, facing a man known for being physically abusive to her in the past. Walk in her shoes…would you have gotten a gun for protection? Marissa Alexander rejected a plea deal that would have been a three-year prison sentence and chose to go to trial. A jury deliberated 12 minutes before convicting her and rendering a twenty year prison sentence. The taxpayers paid for this trial and they will continue to pay $$$$ to keep this woman incarcerated for twenty long years. Has no one assisted Marissa Alexander in seeking a parole?

    • The system needs bodies and now they got two, the baby and her. Life, and freedom mean nothing to these heartless shysters who make up the legal system. They need to build their empire and that takes human bodies.

  13. So maybe GZ & TM were both “in the right”. they could have communicated in the beginning and end of story. At the time GZ decided to give up the macho and walk back to his car TM beefed up his macho, come out from behind a bush and busted GZ’s nose. Right then TM made the last bad decision of his life – He brought only fists to a gunfight. Poor decision making, – not racism, nor 2nd Amendment, or stand your ground, – and the crazed media caused all the flare. BO has set racial bias back 40 years and Sharpton still lives in the shadow of MLK – not the 21st century.

      • DT – there was no racial bias there – just like 95% of the military we are brothers and sisters and while not colorblind know we were all black once upon a time in our ancestry and we were all spun from the same Source’s energy.
        posted later: without media spin and Obama spin – back story in Orlando paper and 9pm local news – neighborhood watch Latino shoots suspicious Black in Sanford neighborhood.

    • Nice try Sam. You presented the entire case in less than 30 seconds but there is one fatal flaw. The bush Sam, there was no bush. Now the jury has to consider that as a lie and will need 16.5 hours to figure it out. Other than that it was flawless.

      • Billy – “emerged from the darkness” vs “come out from behind a bush” – same-o, same-o —

        Zimmerman left his vehicle, he says, to look for a street sign so that he could give police his location. In a phone conversation with a police dispatcher, he was told “not to follow the suspect and that an officer was in route.”
        — “As I headed back to my vehicle, the suspect emerged from the darkness and said ‘you got a problem’ [?] I said ‘No.’ The suspect said ‘you do now.’ ”
        — As he was trying to phone 911 again, “the suspect punched me in the face.”
        — He was knocked to the ground, Zimmerman says, and a struggle began. At one point, he writes that the suspect said “you gonna die tonight [expletive].”
        — Trayvon tried to get to Zimmerman’s gun, Zimmerman writes. “In fear for my life,” Zimmerman says, he “fired one shot.”
        — He adds that Trayvon said, “you got me.”

        Excerpt from http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2012/06/21/155485499/zimmermans-account-of-fatal-encounter-with-trayvon-made-public

        without media spin and Obama spin – back story in Orlando paper and 9pm local news – neighborhood watch Latino shoots suspicious Black in Sanford neighborhood.

        • I like the less than 30 second version better. Only reason I brought up the bush was because they made an issue out of it at the trial. All states have the self defense law but I’m not sure about the tap out that Florida has built into it. Now what in the hill did the gun or kind of gun have to do with it I don’t have any idea but the sure spent a lot of time on that with the gun expert.

          • a lot of ignorants like to equate the kind of piece a person has with their macho-ism they are trying to present. so let’s prove that GZ was trying to be more than he was. it still boils down to “don’t let your alligator mouth overload your canary butt” – aka – “don’t bring just fists to a gunfight.” And it probably never occurred to TM that he might be “outgunned” – or in the 4min dead time he would have made it to his Dad’s place and locked the door.

            I have a 9mm / 17mag, a mini14 with 30/20/10 mags and until the present POTUS leaves office i wish i had a IED proof all terrain mil vehicle with 50’s on it , a gnd-to-air missile launch – nothing to do cajones . . . just trying to stay free and live within the constitution.

            • When I first heard the story I really GZ was out gunning for any black guy he could get away with killing and he did it. As I followed the story I made a 180. George bought the gun because his wife was afraid of a large dog running lose in the neighborhood. He called animal control a number of time and nothing. The air marshal picked out the gun. Real safe as guns go and not the kind you would start a war with (7 shots). Then if you want to kill someone and get away with it you sure as hell don’t call the cops right before you do it. No George was a normal neighborhood watch guy & if TM would have just hit and run I doubt George would have even gone for his gun. He would have dialed 911 emergency.

  14. This is the catch-all topic, so it’s probably the right place to note that JIMMY CARTER says that the Zimmerman jury made the right decision:

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2013/07/17/george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-jimmy-carter/2524809/

    I was surprised, but of course, you have to read past the headline. He said we are a nation of laws, and we must follow the law. The jury could only decide on the charges the prosecution chose to bring.

    When this first started, I thought that the prosecution chose the “murder” charge for two reasons: (1) it would stop the national furor that Florida had let Zimmerman go without even a slap on the wrist–because it sounded like unreasonable vengeance, and (2) they knew they couldn’t prove that–even if they wanted to try.

    From the outset, I have viewed this case for it’s legal angles. From the choice of charges, to the choice of who would sit on the jury, to what was brought up–or not, this was a case was the local version of California choosing not to defend its own gay marriage proposition before the Supreme Court.

    • Yeah well those hairpins voted 3-3 the first time around and they sure tried to bend the law as much as they could. With a public defender GZ would be just a memory.

    • Goethe – i think the prosecution knew they had an un-winnable case and did the best they could – sure the jury would be dumb enough to drop the 2nd degree and sucker into a manslaughter. oh lets try to throw in a child abuse at the end, too. At this point I think GZ should file suit against TM’s parents and Al Sharpton and DOJ.

  15. I wondered why Obama involved himself. I think it was a ploy to reduce the risk of violence in the demonstrations that are planned this weekend. After all, the President of the United States was telling “how it is.” So, people who might have gone nuts this weekend are more likely to think a statement has already been made.

    As for Obama, he picked Friday afternoon because that’s the dead zone of news. Whenever someone wants to avoid negative reaction, they always drop the news on Friday afternoon. It’s where speeches go to die.

  16. Neither Jimmy Carter, Al Sharpton, or President Obama should have tapped into this dance because the Hairpins, as representatives of our legal system, make a combined decision of Not Guilty. Either side could have canceled out any of the six during jury selection so none of the jurors deserve the criticism they are reaping. Whether one agrees or disagrees, it was a legal finding in a trial by jury. The dissenters should concentrate this malicious energy into a force to change the law that brought this verdict about.

    • Tess – it is still simple:

      Amendment 2 – Right to Bear Arms. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note
      A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

      GZ did not “pull leather” first – unfortunately for TM, he had no leather to pull on

      the energy should be spent on education, teaching parents how to raise children, curing “natural” mental illness. And the reason were are experiencing a physical life – learn the emotion of unconditional love.

    • Tess: I said elsewhere that I think Obama felt that he had to speak because he was afraid of violence over the weekend. By saying that he–as the government–understood them, he probably cooled down a lot of people. It was the same thing he tried to do in the Crowley/Gates case. As a spokesperson for the government, he was saying the government had no right to hassle us in our own homes.

      But I also realized that he was answering Jimmy Carter, who said the jurors had done the right thing. Of course, under the headline, Carter was saying that the problem was that the charges required them to get inside Zimmerman’s head, and to assign intent.

      As Sam said above, prosecutors chose to go for a charge they knew they couldn’t win–even if they had tried.

      • They had an almost air tight defense against either charge. The only thing the prosecution had going was the box of rocks for a jury. You heard the dingbat juror say they tried really hard to find something to convict him with. They are suppose to be looking for any reasonable doubt. The system sucks

      • Goethe – you know my thots on BO. even with the grandstanding – i give him super KUDOs for negating the violence over the weekend, i believe he saved several lives and major property damage. just those few words basically neutralized Sharpton. i know you don’t like FNC, or Hannity as well, – but he spent considerable time confronting NAACP and other race igniters about facts versus heresay brought out in the trial and the 100 rallies to be peaceful. But no one, absolutely no one, but BO would have able to keep the peace.

  17. Sam…The trouble with the second amendment Ratified 12/15/1791 is simply 12/15/1791. The writers of the constitution, in their wildest fantasy, could not conjure up the vision of a M249 that spits out 850 bullets per minute. Current laws do not forbid owning guns. There are approximately 270 million firearms possessed by US civilians. It would be Utopia if the whole world would accept and abide by your last two sentences but we both know that is a fantasy.

    Goethe…We didn’t hear the same speech Friday, I did not hear President Obama speak as a government Official but, as an Individual. He used a very personal and emotional overtone, saying he had been followed in department stores in Chicago, that he had heard car locks click when he walked by, that he could have been Trayvon Martin twenty five years ago. I have great respect for President Obama and much of the work he has done (or tried to do). President Obama was raised in Hawaii
    by white grandparents. Anyone who who has visited Hawaii knows that a true native of that state is darker than Barack Obama so I don’t believe he heard any locks clicking before he was an adult enrolled at Yale.

    • Tess – as Billy says, the idea and need for the 2nd was fear – fear of Tyranny, fear of riff-raff savaging the unsettled land, fear of foreign powers; later documents wanted to specifically say “arms” of the same capability as the enemy foreign or domestic – hence until the Totalitarian is out of office, i in fact do want a couple of M249’s illegal or not; a missile launcher and missiles and a armored ied proof assault vehicle with twin 50’s.

      Poor little ol’ 17yr old pot smokin’ foreign born brokin’ home delinquent B.O. – I was born and raised next door to the projects in downtown Denver. The ethnic groups were black,, Mexican / mixed, and Euro mixed. i was followed, beat up and robbed a number of times. As a Euro i was the minority and why i carried a saturday night special for three years and when i was in the car added a 7.7mm rifle.

      And I have no respect for someone as powerful as BO trying to turn us into a second rate nation and report to the U.N. – and fire Flag Officers that are not willing to fire on American citizens without cause.
      , .

        • you could be correct Billy. I think it depended on your location. The first federal law re checks was in 1968. In my teens (1956) the .32cal 5 shot i got was from the local Mafia run by the Smalldone’s. I’m guessing that into the 70’s, except in the rural deep south, Feds and Locals were more worried about Euro-Italians than Blacks. My 7.7mm “Jap” rifle was from a nextdoor neighbor for $10.

          By ’69 when i transitioned from USN TO USNR my .357 Blackhawk “hogleg”was covered by the ’68 Fed Check law.

          again as i said earlier – in the late 50’s thank God we weren’t shook down. It didn’t matter, afoot or in wheels, the group was usually mixed all ethnic, all “suspicious”, or the law just needed to whiz on us.

          • Sometimes even I don’t understand my dry wit. Going way back when slaves were not allowed to own guns but the same law requires able bodied to obtain a gun. Just don’t have the time to research but I kind of remember it from high school. Never finished but I did go. The FBI back then didn’t have so large a data base as they do now so the i-pad could come back in second with the results even before they had 4 G. (before 1800 I think)

            • Location, Location, Billy, DeepSouth. But way back when – they used to have black cowboys and in the “North” “colored”s were as respected as any other ethnic. Unfortunately most were not able to reach higher education because of funding not ethnic barriers..

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