More insurers dropping individual coverage as Obamacare rolls out

The Obamacare train wreck is far from finished in terms of a mangled website roll out and the ripple effect of millions losing their existing health insurance plans. Several reports out during this past week show more cancellations and loss of coverage from Florida to the nation’s capital.

Report and video from CBS News:

The Affordable Care Act was signed by President Obama in 2010 and since then he has repeated one reassuring phrase: “If you like your insurance plan you will keep it. No one will be able to take that away from you. It hasn’t happened yet. It won’t happen in the future.”

But it is happening. The president’s health care law raises the standards for insurance policies, which many consider to be a good thing. But hundreds of thousands of Americans whose policies don’t meet the new standards are being told that their health plans are being cancelled.

Natalie Willes is a sleep consultant who helps parents in Los Angeles train their newborns to sleep. She buys her own health insurance.

“I was completely happy with the insurance I had before,” Willes said.

So she was surprised when she tried to renew her policy. What did she find out?

“That my insurance was going to be completely different, and they were going to be replaced with 10 new plans that were going to fall under the regulations of the Affordable Care Act,” she said.

Some more news from the Washington, DC region via the Washington Examiner:

CareFirst BlueCross BlueShield is being forced to cancel plans that currently cover 76,000 individuals in Virginia, Maryland, and Washington, D.C., due to changes made by President Obama’s health care law, the company told the Washington Examiner today.

That represents more than 40 percent of the 177,000 individuals covered by CareFirst in those states.

Though Obama famously promised that those who liked their health care coverage could keep it under his program, in reality, the health care law imposes a raft of new regulations on insurance policies starting Jan. 1 that are forcing insurers across the country to terminate existing plans.

Still more from Kaiser Health News:

Florida Blue, for example, is terminating about 300,000 policies, about 80 percent of its individual policies in the state. Kaiser Permanente in California has sent notices to 160,000 people – about half of its individual business in the state. Insurer Highmark in Pittsburgh is dropping about 20 percent of its individual market customers, while Independence Blue Cross, the major insurer in Philadelphia, is dropping about 45 percent.

Anyone have any personal experience with this? It’s been asked before, but apparently reports in the prior months were the tip of the iceberg as cancellation reports continue pouring in as we head into 2014 under the new Obamacare rules.

40 comments to More insurers dropping individual coverage as Obamacare rolls out

  • Until I needed a doctor, I did not know that no one in Sequim WA was taking any new patients! Then I went to the Port Angeles Business Association meeting, of which I am the treasurer, and found that the same was the case in Port Angeles! We have only 3 insurance companies in Clallam County and if for instance I get the lowest premium that I can afford, I have a $10,000 deductible, give up my privacy (read all of the fine print), and pay $393 a month after the tax credit from the original $1,074 per month. Who would sign up and give up their privacy, pay $303 per month and still pay another $10,000 before the insurance would kick in. Also, the insurance is a reduced paying insurance which no doctor out here will take! Good luck getting a doctor!

  • Nate,

    Look at whom were the “architects” of Obamacare. None other than Nancy Peloski and Harry Reid. Their intended purpose wasn’t to help the 13-15% of the un-insured/un-insurable, but to bankrupt and destroy the 3rd party payer system!

    Why else would Nancy have said “Pass it, then you can read it!” Or why is there 10,000 pages of Obamacare mandates? All legaleese to confound and confuse the populace until the truth comes out.

    We the working class need to rise up and DEMAND that Obamacare be repealed! If they really want to help the un-insured/un-insurable, then form a working committee to find the best way to approach this.

    I for one am sick of the slick politicians (most who are trained attorneys) misusing words to befuddle the populace. They create/enact rules that benefit themselves first and foremost! There is a reason that most go in as average wage earners, only to retire as rich bureacrats.

    The Federal Tort Claims Act specifies and authorizes which tort suits can be brought against the U.S. government. Many government agencies abuse their power because they are never held accountable. Same goes for high ranking government officials.

    Now is the TIME for the working masses to make their voices KNOWN. To Protest, hold demonstrations, attend Town Halls and to let the government know that we are sick and tired of being fleeced and we are ON to the games!

    We aren’t that far from the trilogy ~ “Hunger Games”. A different lifestyle/different rules for the governing elite!

    My husband’s firm is going to experience a $100,000 increase for their health care premiums next year. They cover about 51 employees!
    And yes, they are shopping around because their PROFIT margin will be vastly effected since they provide FREE coverage for all their partners.

  • Surfisher

    “Since elected, Barack Hussein Obama lies every time he opens his mouth” — this I state apodictically!

    Is there anyone that can give an example that is contrary to this?

    Go ahead — make my day.
    ——————————————————————————————

    BHO: “If you like your insurance plan you will keep it. No one will be able to take that away from you. It hasn’t happened yet. It won’t happen in the future.” LIE

    BHO: “I’ll never sign NADA.” LIE

    And many, many, many, many, many, many more examples of BHO lying all the time since in office!
    ———————————————————————————————

    Time to IMPEACH!

  • Lois Denaut

    I wonder if the insurance companies are being “honest” about why they are cancelling so many people’s insurance plans??? Possibly, they now are having to cover more people with pre-existing health issues and the insurance companies don’t want to accept this risk under the Affordable Care Act aka Obamacare. What Federal or State Agencies are overseeing “why” all of these insurance companies are cancelling so many insurance policies now??? Are these insurance companies acting in bad faith toward the people they have been receiving premiums from for years??? Does it have to do with the fact under the new Affordable Care Act children and young adults up to age 26 can be covered under their parent’s health insurance policy??? Answers need to be asked about the above questions from the different insurance companies that are cancelling the health insurance policies

  • I do not have a personal account, as I refuse to call or enroll. However it is being reported that 87% of the ACA enrollment in Washington and 82% in Kentucky are in medicaid. The cost for this will be reflected in your property taxes, which no one will realize for at least a year from now. If you thought the housing bubble was bad…just wait.

    Last night I caught part of the Kelly files on Fox waiting for the interview of Charles Krauthammer and was to find that it was Rahm Emmanuel’s brother that was the actual “architect” of the ACA, he wrote it, he was her guest. My jaw dropped. This coupled with a recently read article that ties a relative of Valerie Jarret’s to the company in Canada that bilked over 600 million from we taxpayers for a substandard website really puts a whole different light on this.

    This law was passed without being read, by a democrat controlled House & Senate. There are 20,000 pages of regulations attached to it, one of which that says me, a 56 year old woman has to have maternity/prenatal care in my policy. The House of Representatives, in their latest partisan argument tried to stop this and delay it but to no avail, I guess Harry & Nancy finally read it and knew what would happen if it wasn’t more concretely cemented. This law should be abolished and the American public should demand a refund from the companies, politicians and appointees that misused, mishandled, mislead and squandered our money.

    • Lois Denaut

      What health insurance bill do you propose to insure all the people with pre-existing health conditions? It is easy to attack the Affordable Care Act that just started accepting enrollment on October 1, 2013. It took several months for the Medicare Prescription Act to iron out the kinks.
      I find it interesting that so many people are attempting to sign up for this insurance plan if it is such a “bad” plan. Lois Denaut, Henderson, Nevada.

      • The problem is not all people going to the site are trying to sign up. Some are trying to find out what is best for them. Without all the honest dollar figures given to the consumer, how are they going to make an informed decision for something as important as their healthcare. On top of that, the amounts for those who got into the site, were now told was incorrect and they have to wait until January to find out? The insidious part of the website is this little message hidden on the site in small print, that says you have no reasonable expectation of privacy with any information given in this system! What? That is against the HIPA (Health Insurance Protection Act) that is supposed to protect our privacy. They know it and don’t care. Not to mention the serious breaches in security, which will allow multiple identity thefts of anyone crazy enough to give them their info. I’m not. I also don’t want the IRS to have my medical information. Since they are guilty of targeting groups this President does not like. What if you needed an operation, he found out about it and got you denied! Think it can’t happen, this President has used executive orders and went around Conrgress repeatedly. He thinks he is above the law.

        • Surfisher

          Karen Spence — the easiest solution is to impeach Obama on his failure to provide a valid birth certificate, which he STILL refuses to do!

          Once proven he’s not born in the USA — all his anti-American “laws” will become null and void!

          Contact Texas congressman Steve Stockman:

          326 Cannon House Office Building
          Independence Avenue
          Washington, DC 20515
          Phone: 202-225-1555
          Fax: 202-226-0396

  • For coverage under Obamacare “most similar” (according to my insurance company) to what I have now, I would have to pay TRIPLE the monthly premiums (from $204 to $602) and satisfy an even HIGHER deductible ($5000)! I’m healthy, have an excellent medical history, am way past childbearing age, don’t take meds (rarely even take OTC drugs), but I’m expected to pay $7200 for coverage that wouldn’t even kick in until I had paid ANOTHER $5000 out of pocket . . . and this sorry deal would be repeated EVERY YEAR??? I don’t think so! I’ll be one of many newly UN-insured. And those who couldn’t get insurance prior to Obamacare, I’m thinking many of them won’t be able to afford what will be available to them now either. Having insurance COVERAGE that costs more than it pays is NOT “affordable health care.”

    • Surfisher

      Debi — The easiest solution PUT A STOP TO THIS OBAMINATION “HEALTH CARE” USURY is to impeach Obama on his failure to provide a valid Birth Certificate, which he STILL refuses to do!

      Once proven he’s not born in the USA — all his anti-American “laws” will become null and void!

      View (if you can) this 2 minute video (Kenyan Ambassador admits Obama born in Kenya):

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zH4GX3Otf14

      ————————————————————————————————-

      Contact Texas congressman Steve Stockman:

      326 Cannon House Office Building
      Independence Avenue
      Washington, DC 20515
      Phone: 202-225-1555
      Fax: 202-226-0396

      Call him and demand that an investigation be started in Congress ASAP as to Obama’s failure to JUST SHOW HIS ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE — not copies, since no US Citizen could get anywhere with a Copy, but MUST show the ORIGINAL (so what makes Barrack Hussein Obama ABOVE the Law NOT TO DO what WE ALL American Citizens are FORCED by LAW to do)!

      Why won’t Obama show his ORIGINAL Birth Certificate — “If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about!” (that is his mantra on the NSA spying on US)!

      Why won’t the NSA apply this to Obama — find out where he was ACTUALLY born! After all, isn’t he supposed to be just like one of us (no lower or higher than any US Citizen) — or does the NSA consider Obama their Dictator in Chief, and therefore UNTOUCHABLE?

      Surely if, We the Citizens, press our Representatives to force this issue — we may find some Patriots in Congress and Senate, that are willing to risk their cushy jobs for the SAKE of Righting a Wrong!

      So keep on calling your Reps — demand Obama gets investigated on publishing a Fake Copy of his Birth Certificate, and tell him if he fails to provide the Original, he’ll be eventually impeached and send to jail for being an Impostor!

  • Goethe Behr

    Since people have to insure through private insurance companies, the administration should have dumped it in their laps.

    I thought we were going to have the same craziness we had when they broke up AT&T. All kinds of phone companies and brokers were calling to sign us up. I suspect they didn’t set up the ACA that way to avoid the craziness. But then, if there had been any problem, they would have gotten the blame.

    But more to the point, I’m surprised that companies are cancelling policies. That’s just throwing away customers. I wonder if the companies are cancelling policies of those they think will cost them money, hoping they’ll go elsewhere.

    The way I understand it, the law requires specific coverages. But it doesn’t regulate premium costs, does it? I mean, I know they have to offer the same premium for each package, but one company could charge less, right?

    If that’s the case, it would be easy to do a ponzi game of selling insurance cheap, marketing like crazy, getting a lot of money upfront, pocketing high salaries for you and your buddies, and when someone finally has a large claim, just declare bankruptcy, and move to the next scam.

    • Josh

      My guess has been that they have some kind of auto calculation formula to figure out how much they should charge for premiums. With health insurance being around as long as it has been I’m sure they have a pretty mature cost modeling process.

      Its probably some combination of – likelihood of use generally, combined likely coverages actually used (disease, injury, maintenance..etc), estimated cost of supplying those coverages, and desired profit margin (which also include other costs of their doing business like employee costs, taxes…etc). Really, as i think about this more, it is likely that we will see ‘inflation’ come as a result of this similar to the inflation we saw in the Bush years when Oil and Gas prices sky rocketed…maybe worse because this is now a mandated cost increase.

      Most companies provide insurance for their employees, if their cost of insurance goes up, they will possibly raise the price of products to compensate. And since we have layers of companies selling to each other, we could see inflation (this youtube video illustrates the concept: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ERbC7JyCfU)

      But back to insurance companies, they likely looked at the cost model of their old plans and there calculations likely put the required price beyond what they believed anyone would pay, so they had to either create new plans, or reduce down to things they believed people would buy.

    • Lois Denaut

      Couldn’t any health insurance do that? Isn’t there any local, state, or federal agency that “oversees” insurance companies in the United States?

      • While we had a letter to the Peninsula Daily News saying she “helped people get on the health exchange” she didn’t say if they already had a primary care physician or if their new plan will let them keep that physician. The fact remains that when I needed a primary doctor in Sequim on Oct 8th, 2013, nobody was taking new patients and it didn’t matter what mode of payment. So, with all the newly insured, where are they going to go for their health care. Having an insurance plan does not equate to having a primary care phsysician, especially since all exchange plans pay a reduced amount. Port Angeles is the same. This is in Washington state.

  • Goethe Behr

    Thanks, Josh. Thoughtful response; much appreciated.

    Now, then, as I understand it, the ACA guidelines require a certain amount of coverage for each category of coverage.

    Nate’s complaint is not that he’s getting less for the money, it’s that he’s getting more for more money, and didn’t want those extra items. But there must be a lower policy he could have had.

    So let me ask you this: couldn’t Nate’s insurance agent have said, “there’s no cookie-cutter policy like the one you have now, but since you are such a valued customer, we’ll list you as having policy “C,” but we’ll give you RIDERS to cover what the new “C” doesn’t cover, so you’ll have exactly the same coverage, and you just pay extra for the riders.”

    And my guess is that the extra plus the lower policy would be about what he has been paying. Bim-botta-boom.

    I mean, there’s nothing in the new law that says you can’t pay for EXTRA coverage, right? Isn’t it like Medicare? You can get Medicare A and can get B, but you can also buy “supplemental” coverage.

    My guess is that companies are dropping people they WANT to drop, and are dropping others just to make a point about “poor them.” A good salesperson should be able to make things work for you–if that’s what he/she wants to do. I used to be in sales, and this seems like an easy fix.

    • Josh

      My understanding of the healthcare law is it did a ton of things in the healthcare industry – within insurance as well as applying to actual healthcare.

      For the plan coverage perspective, from everything I’ve seen/heard, it raised the water-table on requirements, requiring certain things in all plans. For example, the 65 year old lady who had to buy a plan including prenatal coverage, because prenatal coverage was a requirement in all plans.

      It seems the plan limited the flexibility that insurance companies have for the plans they can offer…in other words and even less free market than what was there before.

      I didn’t see Nate’s post about his situation. There are a lot of possible answers as to why they didn’t come up with other options…including incompetence.

      Companies won’t drop people they don’t want, they don’t look at it that way…well, depending on the size of the company and how the insurance was purchased. I am far removed from the insurance purchase process as i select the coverages my company offers. So if i dropped one company and went to another, i wouldn’t be getting a call from an agent.

      That’s actually the real problem we have with insurance in America, the individual is not really the end client. The end client to the insurance company, more times than not, is the corporation. Similarly, to hospitals and doctors, the individual is not really the end client because the insurance company pays. That’s no fault of greedy corporate leaders, but lazy people who don’t want to deal with details.

      America, being a nation of kings, has become a lazy fast-food minded society. If America had faced Normandy beach with the mentality we have today as a society, we never would have finished that battle and would have walked away from the war calling it not worth it. If America had faced Pearl Harbor with the same mentality many have today, we would have apologized to the Japanese for our imperialistic history and for expressing an opinion for their treatment of the Chinese.

      America has become so prosperous, and life has become so convenient for so many, that they don’t quite understand when something they really want, or need, costs more than what they have. They instead create some fairy tale about an evil white guy on some beach somewhere sipping cocktails and living it up in decadence not paying attention to the needs of the common man…as if the needs of the common man are the responsibility of anyone else other than the common man himself…or herself.

      …stepping off of soapbox…

      I would say it is possible that any company would take the opportunity of historic change in the healthcare industry to dump coverages they weren’t making much money on. They could blame Obamacare and nobody would notice.

      But one thing is unavoidable, that Nate’s plan was negatively effected as an unintended consequence of implementing a bad way to solve a real problem. It is also true that millions of other people are negatively effected by this law.

      Obama seems to have this philosophy:

      The more you have the less right you have to what is yours, and the less you have the more right you have to what belongs to someone else.

      85% of American’s had insurance before this and about 80% of them were happy with their plans. These 85%, having had insurance, to Obama and the Democrats had less right to keep what they had than those who didn’t have insurance. So Obama passed a new law hurting the 85% so he could get a benefit to less than 10% of society. (the 15% remaining are a mixture of illegal immigrants, the poor and healthy people who don’t want insurance).

      Nate is just 1 example of people who have been hurt by the law. Maybe his agent could have done better. Maybe insurance companies are taking the opportunity to dump people and coverages. One thing is for sure, Obamacare is causing a lot of pain to a lot more people than it ever intended to benefit.

  • Josh

    Here are a couple of tell-tale signs about what went on, and is going on with Obamacare:

    Most recently, they’ve [the whitehouse] acknowledged how plans from March 2010 and earlier would be grandfathered in — but only if the insurance provider has not made significant changes to them.

    and this one:

    When asked by Rep. Fred Upton, R-Mich., chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee, about why people were getting cancellation notices from their insurance companies and why a change was made allowing certain insurance policies to be ruled ineligible under ObamaCare, Sebelius claimed, “There was no change.”

    It seems the way this was sold to the American public was the age old tactic of using the truth to tell a lie.

    What was said – “If you like your plan, and you like your doctor, you won’t have to do a thing,” Obama said. “You keep your plan. You keep your doctor. If your employer is providing you with good insurance, terrific! We’re not going to mess with it.”

    Truth *they* aren’t the ones that are going to mess with your plan. The insurance provider is going to do that.

    Implied truth, that is the real lie – nothing changes for you.

    The truth is that you can keep your plan with significant changes. So you *can* keep your plan. But, if the insurance company chooses not to continue the plan, or the doctor chooses not to have you as a patient, or your company decides to drop your coverage…its not the healthcare law doing that, its those people…so blame them, right?

    Their categorization of this is like saying, if you like McDonald’s you can keep going there. What they don’t say is that their plan will make McDonald’s into a completely vegan menu. You can keep eating at McDonald’s they aren’t changing the restaurant you eat at, and if some stores close down or change to Burger King, its not their fault.

    Hopefully the media will catch on to this and start asking these kinds of questions about what’s not being said.

    Although, people shouldn’t be surprised at this. In one of Obama’s televised town hall’s on health care. He was asked a philosophical question about a 95 year old woman wanting a pace maker. He waxed philosophical to step away from the specific situation, and then made a general statement that sometimes its better to take a pain pill.

    With this kind of philosophy backing the writing of Obamacare, people shouldn’t really be surprised at any level of pain caused by the change.

    • Surfisher

      The easiest solution TO STOP OBAMACARE FROM DESTROYING US, is to impeach Obama on his failure to provide a valid birth certificate, which he STILL refuses to do!

      Call your Reps AND ALSO FAX them the below (since phone calls never get you to your actual Representative) — FAX this:
      ———————————————————————————————–

      “We demand that an investigation be started in Congress BY YOU, dear Congressman, as to Obama’s failure to SHOW HIS ORIGINAL BIRTH CERTIFICATE AS OF YET — no copies, please, since no US Citizen could get anywhere with a Copy, but MUST show the ORIGINAL (what makes Barrack Hussein Obama ABOVE the Law NOT TO DO what WE ALL American Citizens must do)!
      Why won’t Obama show his ORIGINAL Birth Certificate — “If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about!” (that is his mantra on the NSA spying on US)! So, what is Barrack Hussein Obama hiding from Congress and We the People — as per this video:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px9XtjUAIzs

      Dear Congressman, if you are unwilling to start such an investigation, be assured we won’t be willing to cast our votes for you come election time!”
      ———————————————————————————————-

      Fax this Patriot in my home state (and also your Reps):

      Texas congressman Steve Stockman:

      Fax: 202-226-0396

  • Surfisher

    NBC News Investigations — must read scathing article: “Obama knew millions could not keep their health insurance”!

    http://investigations.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/10/29/21222195-obama-administration-knew-millions-could-not-keep-their-health-insurance?lite

    Excerpts:

    “Buried in Obamacare regulations from July 2010 is an estimate that because of normal turnover in the individual insurance market, “40 to 67 percent” of customers will not be able to keep their policy. And because many policies will have been changed since the key date, “the percentage of individual market policies losing grandfather status in a given year exceeds the 40 to 67 percent range.”

    That means the administration knew that more than 40 to 67 percent of those in the individual market would not be able to keep their plans, even if they liked them.

    Yet President Obama, who had promised in 2009, “if you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan,” was still saying in 2012, “If [you] already have health insurance, you will keep your health insurance.”

    “This says that when they made the promise, they knew half the people in this market outright couldn’t keep what they had and then they wrote the rules so that others couldn’t make it either,” said Robert Laszewski, of Health Policy and Strategy Associates…”
    ————————————————————————————

    Conclusions:

    Obama knew he was lying from the beginning, and kept on lying till the end! He knew he was going to hurt the American people from the start, and now he has accomplished his dirty deed!

    Time to IMPEACH!

    • Goethe Behr

      Surf: Do you even read things you post?

      The Obama claim was that you can keep your current policy IF YOU WANT TO. (And, of course, if the insurance company wants to.)

      You have written that the NORMAL TURNOVER is 40 to 67%.

      “Normal turnover” means choosing to change. If one chooses to change, how can you expect the policies to be “grandfathered”?

  • Josh

    So after years of making promises about no impact to you if you’re happy with what you’ve got, saying statements like:

    “If you like your plan, and you like your doctor, you won’t have to do a thing,” Obama said. “You keep your plan. You keep your doctor. If your employer is providing you with good insurance, terrific! We’re not going to mess with it.”

    Now that its been reveals that people will indeed lose their coverages they are happy with, and that they knew for a while that this would happen…what is the response to those who are losing coverage? Apology? Change course? We were wrong? Here is what Obama said recently in a speech to those who’ve lost their coverage after being told by him they would not:

    “So if you’re getting one of these letters, just shop around in the new marketplace. That’s what it’s for,” Obama said. “Because of the tax credits that we are offering, and the competition between insurers, most people are going to be able to get better, comprehensive healthcare plans for the same price or even cheaper than projected.”

    It seems that this plan, like all the other liberal ideas, had to be lied about in order to get passed. These are the statements of an oppressor that is thinking ‘ i have you now, and there’s nothing you can do about it. I took away what you wanted, now go look for what i have offered in its place.’

    • Surfisher

      Josh — exactly!

      Obama has perjured himself BY PUBLICLY STATING AS TRUE, WHAT HE KNEW IN ADVANCE WAS A LIE — again, and again!

      That’s grounds for Impeachment (remember Slick Willy’s perjury)!

  • Josh

    Goethe – turnover of plans doesn’t mean the plans go away, it just means someone chooses something else, or the insurance company makes their own updates to the policy. insurance policies are likely updated all the time by insurance companies. and people choose different coverages all the time.

    the thing being pointed to here is that the ‘grandfathering’ promise is not being kept, and Obama and co. knew it would never be, but still told people they could keep their plans.

    The difference here is that normal turnover is normal business, but put the Obamacare grandfathering clause in the mix and things go away by mandate rather than choice.

    You might think there’s no difference, but the difference here goes back to choice. Previous to Obamacare, insurance companies, corporations (bulk purchasers of coverage), and individuals made policy coverage decisions based on what would benefit them. People/corporations would choose a coverage that they benefited from, and Insurance companies offered policies they could benefit from. The company could choose to say yes or no to selling, and the individual/corporation could say yes or no to purchasing.

    That freedom based system has been broken. Now Insurance companies are ‘required’ to provide coverage, and individuals/businesses are ‘required’ to purchase. These requirements are regardless of benefit to either. However, since insurance companies need to stay in business, they will have to raise rates to cover the additional items and sicker people. This will make the premiums go up, and is causing the cancellation of many policies and companies to stop providing coverage opting instead to pay a tax.

    The thing is that Obama knew this would happen from the beginning, but used nuance to hide meaning, and also used truth to tell lies. Being nuance and truth based, they could claim they didn’t lie to anyone. Whether they lied or not i guess depends on what your definition of a lie is. Reminds me of Clinton – ‘it depends on what the definition if *is* is’

    What an amazing heritage the democratic party has. Its time the democratic faithful started revamping their party.

    I guess insurance companies could follow the same nuance / truth for lies approach…they could drop people who had pre-existing conditions or had higher output than input and just say ‘our decision not to cover had nothing to do with the pre-existing condition, it was simple cost modeling of risk analysis, nothing more just dollars. we did not consider at all whether or not the person had a pre-existing condition.

    Or they could say ‘our dropping of this person had nothing to do with not wanting to provide coverage to the sick, and we did not break any promises when we dropped them. it was a simple business decision.’

    Then end it with:

    “So if you’re getting one of these letters [about being rejected or coverage dropped], just shop around in the new marketplace. That’s what it’s for,” [the insurance company would say]. “Because of the tax credits that [Obama is offering], and the competition between insurers, most people are going to be able to get better, comprehensive healthcare plans for the same price or even cheaper than projected.”

    [btw - the above quote came from Obama as a message to those who have been losing their coverage because of Obamacare] Here’s the full Obama quote:

    “So if you’re getting one of these letters, just shop around in the new marketplace. That’s what it’s for,” Obama said. “Because of the tax credits that we are offering, and the competition between insurers, most people are going to be able to get better, comprehensive healthcare plans for the same price or even cheaper than projected.”

    Good for the goose good for the gander? how about repeal Obamacare?

  • Surfisher

    Josh — well stated.

    Key word in: “…most people are going to be able to get better, comprehensive healthcare plans…” is MOST — LOL, what turnabout, backpedaling by Barrack Hussein’s national promise FOR ALL people…! What a clever little liar Obama is!

    p.s. You are wasting your time trying to educate Goethe Behr — you may be able to do just about anything, but put brains into that fool’s head.

    Repeal Obamacare — or Impeach Obama to nullify it?

    Which is easier, and best for the US?

  • samreusser

    Surfisher – unless a senior W.H. official / Cabinet member pukes out everything and is granted immunity – or – the MSM crabs on BHO’s groin turn on him – HE AIN’T GONNA BE IMPEACHED and you should quit harping on it!

    Josh – you’ve done a great job of keeping us abreast of the Obamacare cancerous malignancy. they released the first few days signups – less than 250, i’m guessing for the month less than 5,000 from the eventual 30mega freebies and 15mega individuals losing their direct insurance company plans.

    next tho will be the companies given as reprieve and will start sending letters after Jan 1 to their employees that sometime in 2014 they will cancelled because their group policy is cancelled.

    if obamacare survives it will lead to a single payer system and true socialized medicine will be upon us.

    Unless in 2014 elections the republicans can control both senate and house and sustain a 75% vote after BHO veto’s i’m afraid we are stuck with socialized medicine adjacent to medicare.

    For me – i rolled straight from a very large company plan and tricare+ to medicare a & b and tricare 4 life w/ medicare d for about the same as i paid before turning 65 – kept all my 8 doctors.

    but now if you ain’t already a 65+ you are truly screwed by the US Government.

    P.S. Congress and staff? Their congressperson can exempt them aca or if they chooswe to put themselves into aca they will be government subsidized the same amount as their standard government policies. AIN’T THAT SPECIAL!!!

    • Surfisher

      Enrollment in health insurance plans on the troubled Obamacare website was very small in the first couple of days of operation, with just 248 Americans signing up, according to documents released on Thursday by a U.S. House of Representatives committee.

      http://news.msn.com/us/documents-obamacare-enrollment-very-small-in-first-days

    • Josh

      Sam – one thing to remember too is that a republican win won’t necessarily get Obamacare repealed. While the democrat heritage is tyranny and lies, the republican heritage is cowardice and avoidance. After the democrats got majority again in house/senate in post-civil war era, they passed laws effectively undoing the freedom the republicans put in place with the various ‘reconstruction’ amendments. Jim Crow laws. The republicans got power again after that, but the Jim Crow laws stayed pretty much effective until the Civil Right’s acts of the 1960′s. So the democrat tyranny reigned for decades because of republican cowardice…at least that’s what it looks like.

      So the pressure the tea party is bringing will likely need to continue to be brought after the 2014 elections to ensure that congress does what they’re told to do. They’re already backing off of the ‘shut down’ government approach. They need to promise to do it again in January / February unless Obamacare is repealed, or defunded.

      I’d advocate a 3rd party, but something that would caucus within one of the 2 major parties at the Federal level until they had enough of a majority to take over…could take 10-16 years.

      • samreusser

        Josh – i certainly agree that the RINO portion of the GOP are candy-asses and the TeaParty just isn’t strong enough or respected enough by the Low Info’s to take down the Demo’s.

        Goethe and I discussed on a different thread of this domain that definitely a new party is what’s needed. I personally feel that the combo of the T.P. & Libertarian join together and form a joint set of beliefs and objectives. Call it the Constitution Party or something similar. I believe that if someone were influential enough – they could get Koch industries (maybe through FreedomWorks) involved and dump about a billion (giga) bucks into support and advertising, maybe even buy CBS we could get a new ;party started and already fully reved up. Maybe even get Trump in on the venture.

        The big thing would be that between NBC and FOX he word would get out to the Lo Info’s and cause ALL media to convert or pack it in.

        Democrats are so smug, righteous, liberal/progressive they are confident that the Media and education will follow them directly into pure socialism.

        The iterations of Monarchy, Totalitarianism, Communism must all come before true socialism so it will never happen. And it all starts with Big Government and government control deciding what’s good for “We the People”.

        • Goethe Behr

          Sam: Exactly. Each era sees a new movement come about. When the Whigs were wandering in the wilderness, the Republican Party was born with energy to quickly take over the country.

          And the last time this occurred, the anti-war movement of the 1970s challenged the Democratic establishment. The Dem establishment was able to co-opt the language and thereby, defuse the energy of the movement.

          While it did have the effect of making the world safe for unending war, it turned the party into a directionless group without energy. And that ushered in at least 40 years of conservative power in the country.

          After the Virginia election this week, the GOP establishment will work very hard to suppress the Tea Party, saying they are counterproductive. If they are successful, they will usher in 40 years of liberal supremacy.

          • samreusser

            Goethe – if the obsolete RINOs continue to reign, you are absolutely correct. If liberals/progressives continue to dominate, even WE will live to see the fall of our democratic-republic. The trend to huge government, loss of two party elections, a pseudo-Monarchy will emerge along with bankruptcy.

            The shame is the very wealthy – rather Lib or Cons – have already staged their finances such they will be untouched. I am having a hard time understanding why the multi-billionaires of the U.S.would want to see the U.S. mutated to a semi-socialistic bankrupt society and the dollar no longer be the standard.

            The two Koch brothers combined are worth $76B !!! Surely there are other Conservative multi-billionaires that could come up with a plan to deliver a message that would start us back to solvency and smaller, better controlled government.

            I also don’t understand where the RINOs reasoning makes any sense.They should be returning to their roots, which is the combo of the libertarian and Tea Parties.

            btw – if RINO’s and T.P. had any sense they would simply broadcast they were trying to save We the People heartache over ACA and let the Dems run like chickens beheaded doing all their damage control (it has already started)

            .

    • Surfisher

      “Obama’s lame duck period has seemingly set in earlier than usual for a two-term president” — read the article below.

      http://money.msn.com/investing/the-worlds-most-powerful-people-2013-1

      Putin made Obama look like a toddler still in diapers (by checkmating him on Syria).

      Now, the American people are waking up to the fact that Barrack Hussein is nothing but a lair, a crooked politician and a disgrace to our nation!

      Time to strike the iron while it’s hot — start Obama’s Impeachment ASAP!

  • Surfisher

    Josh & Samreusser — both of you are projecting long term goals to save our nation…which is very scary.

    If Obama is allowed to reign for another 3 years — there will nothing left of our Free Republic. He’ll succeed in destroying the US Constitution piece-by-piece a month at a time…till he’s done come 2016.

    The Kenyan-born Usurper of the White House has already achieved his first goal, the creation of a Government Health “Care” Monopoly that forces all free citizens to be no longer free — since failure to obey Obamacare will result in fines, penalties and even jail of a Citizen who refuses to participate under this unconstitutional mandate (forcing Americans to buy a product/service they may not want to)! Those few that refuse, will no longer be free Americans, but turned into subjects of the State to be dealt with accordingly!

    But that is not enough for Obama — just a few subjects refusing Obamacare. ALL Free Citizens must be turned into SUBJECTS of His State!

    The 2nd Amendment was enacted for this reason: “All armed men are Free Citizens, disarmed men are nothing but Subjects!”

    So, now that Lil’ Hussein has accomplished his 1st goal, he will devote the rest of his 3 years left to go after the 2nd Amendment (he’s already indicated that that’s next on his list). He’ll have 3 years if unchecked, until he succeeds in destroying it, and since the 2nd Amendment is the FINAL CHECK, against both Foreign and Domestic enemies, that the American have!

    Thus, Obama would be assured that he can easily proceed to dismantle the Rest of Our Constitution, because the disarmed American subjects can now only bow their heads and accept what’s coming — or else march in Obama’s DHS storm troopers to make you docile!!!
    ——————————————————————————————–

    Don’t know what you all are thinking — but unless Barrack Hussein is put under some Impeachment pressure NOW (whether it be his Fake Birth Certificate or get a Class A lawsuit filed by all those who refuse to be bullied into buying a service they do not want) — THERE WILL BE NO SAVING OUR FREE REPUBLIC…EVER (once Lil’ Hussein is done destroying it by 2016)!

    Interested in your meritorious comments!

  • Surfisher

    LOL — the funniest comment I heard from a friend yesterday:

    “I can’t wait to get up in the morning — to see what new s#*%#t Obama has done”.

  • Surfisher

    *Obama’s health law finally gets real for America* article:

    http://news.msn.com/us/obamas-health-law-finally-gets-real-for-america

    Read the above article by MSN — though watered down to appease some of Obamacare’s effect, and make it palatable to the general public, it nevertheless mildly shows the damage to the American people it is doing, and the lies Obama said to get it going!

    Key excerpts:

    1) “Are they going to put me in jail if I don’t buy insurance?” (Yes, if you do not file taxes whereby no tax penalty deduction by the IRS can be issued)!

    2) “The Obama administration insists nobody will lose coverage as a result of cancellation notices going out to millions of people. At least 3.5 million Americans have been issued cancellations so far” — So Obama is nothing but a Liar!

    3) “The main thing that upsets us is the president … said over and over and over again: If you like your health plan, you will be able to keep your health plan, guaranteed.”

    4) “There’s a chance the number of people getting unwanted terminations may grow. In 2015, the law’s requirement that larger companies provide health insurance will take effect. It’s expected that a small share of firms will drop coverage, deciding that it’s cheaper to pay fines imposed under the law.”
    ————————————————————————————————-

    Conclusion:

    Unless we try to Impeach the Liar Obama NOW (the kenyan-born usurper of the White House) — we may lose Free America For Ever!

  • Josh

    Had to laugh when i heard this ‘Obama lied, policies died!’

    • Surfisher

      Josh — sadly funny.

      Was going to post more, but gotta go, nature calls — I need to go and obama, but can’t find a roll of toilet paper….

    • Goethe Behr

      Josh: that’s a good one–and what makes it good is the irony of using an expression that came from hatred of recent presidents (eg, “Bush Lied, Soldiers Died.” I like the devilish twist.

  • Goethe Behr

    Yesterday, Bill Clinton said that people should be able to keep their insurance policies if they like them.

    I’ve been saying that there are levels of coverage in the new program. Seems to me, all insurers will have to do is sell the lower program and then fashion “riders” to include items not now in the lower policy.

    Also, someone said that they may just turn over the sign-up to the insurance companies. That’s what I’ve been saying all along. My guess is that they didn’t do that because they didn’t want the annoyance caused by the phone companies, after that market was opened up. But the companies would have taken the grief from any confusion–and it would have been their problem to explain things.

    And that’s only fair, since more than anyone else, the insurnace companies will benefit from the new system.