Secession petitions growing at WhiteHouse.gov

The White House website allows users to create petition drives which, if the qualified number of signatures is received, will receive an official response from the administration. As of today, there are petition drives originating from all 50 states asking for the right to “peaceful secession” from the United States and permission to form a new government.

Report from The Daily Caller:

Less than a week after a New Orleans suburbanite petitioned the White House to allow Louisiana to secede from the United States, petitions from seven states have collected enough signatures to trigger a promised review from the Obama administration.

By 6:00 a.m. EST Wednesday, more than 675,000 digital signatures appeared on 69 separate secession petitions covering all 50 states, according to a Daily Caller analysis of requests lodged with the White House’s “We the People” online petition system.

A petition from Vermont, where talk of secession is a regular feature of political life, was the final entry.

Petitions from Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, North Carolina, Tennessee and Texas residents have accrued at least 25,000 signatures, the number the Obama administration says it will reward with a staff review of online proposals.

The Texas petition leads all others by a wide margin. Shortly before 9:00 a.m. EST Wednesday, it had attracted 94,700 signatures. But a spokesperson for Gov. Rick Perry said Tuesday afternoon that he does not support the idea of his state striking out on its own.

Retired Congressman and former GOP Presidential candidate Ron Paul weighed in on the controversy via RonPaul.com:

….Secession is a good principle. Just think of the benefits that would have come over these last 230-some years if the principle of secession had existed. That means the federal government would always have been restrained, not to overburden the states with too much federalism, too many federal rules and regulations.

But since that was all wiped out with the Civil War, the federal government has grown by leaps and bounds and we have suffered the consequences, and we need to reconsider this. It’s not un-American to think about the possibility of secession. This is something that’s voluntary. We came together voluntarily. A free society means you can dissolve it voluntarily. That was the whole issue was about.

This is a fascinating topic but one which will evoke strong emotion on both sides of the issue.

168 comments to Secession petitions growing at WhiteHouse.gov

  • Neville

    Isn’t that just like Slick Rick? He rode the “secessionist” wave into the POTUS primary last year when he never even uttered the word in his famous speech. Now, when he has nothing to lose and everything to gain (a new governor’s term in 2 years), he backpedals.

    Perry was never a Texan’s politician. When real Texans say “Don’t mess with Texas!” they are willing to back it up with spurs and sixguns. With Perry, he really means “… unless you want to pay for the privilege, and then we can talk, good buddy.”

  • Tom May

    Great. Let those who wish to secede get together and form another nation. That would leave sane folk with less opposition and lost time dealing with kooks. I would recommend the already elected President of the Confederates States, Mit Romney as Commnader in Chief/President, and Allen West of Fla as VP. That would be diversity and ‘madness’ accomplished in one ‘fell sweep.’

    • STEVE

      That’s a great start! Now, in order to form an even more perfect union, Flush Limbaugh would become de facto President and tell Mittens what to think, say, and do. The Cabinet should include other well-known douchebags like The Donald, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachman, Mike Huckleberry, etc. Akin and Mourdock are presently out of work, so they should be appointed to important positions involving women’s health and reproductive issues. The voting constituency would consist mostly of ignorant, paranoid middle age white people, including religious wingnuts, teabaggers, KKK, and other troglodytes similarly situated. The Information Ministry would be a wholly owned subsidiary of Faux News. Just two questions: what will this utopia be called, and where will it be found on the map?

      • LMAO reading your comments Steve. Not sure on the name but I can guarantee it will be located on the farrrrrrrrrrrrrr right.

      • Govenor Rick Perry, while not supportive of the secession movement, has four suggestions for possible new locales. Said Govenor Perry, “North, East, West, and ….uh….let’s see….that’s north, west, nor…no east…., I’ll have to get back with you on that last one.”

      • Yeah, it’s crazy how smart you Dems are! I’m sure with your extraordinary intelligence and command of reality, that you’d figure out the very few miniscule problems you’d have if a bunch of “red states” seceded.

        You know like:

        1. How to collect welfare checks from each other
        2. How to increase govt. revenue when noone has a job
        3. How to get your “free” healthcare when all the doctors have left (you know where they’ll get paid)
        4. How to get good and services when all those greed businesspeople are gone

        And, so on.

        As smart and sane as you all constantly tell yourselves you are, I’m sure those problems will be no big deal.

        Huh… I’m not a Democrat (or a Republican for that matter)… but, it looks like I can make ignorant comments just as well as you can… maybe there is still hope for me after all!

        • John

          I had the impression that, for the most part, Republican states are net takers, and Democratic states are net givers, when you look at taxes versus benefits. So I looked it up, and indeed that’s right — of the states that went for Romney, 22 get more benefits than they pay in taxes, while 3 pay more in taxes than they get in benefits. On the other side, 14 of the states that voted for Obama get more in benefits, while 10 pay more taxes.

          So if the Romney states all left, quit paying taxes and receiving benefits, the remaining states would be much better off.

          Not surprising, considering that the ex-Confederate states are largely the poorest in the country and went solidly for Romney. But the biggest taker of all is West Virginia. Montana, Idaho, and Arizona are also way up on the list all getting back more than $1.50 for each dollar of taxes.

          The biggest surprise is Washington DC: It gets 30 cents on the dollar for its taxes. The next biggest giver is Minnesota, with 64 cents on the dollar.

          • Billy Malone

            That’s why we vote for a man who can bring home the bacon. You think the guy that gets it is going to share it?

            • Goethe Behr

              Billy: Sometimes I think you’re a bit too sanctimonious about spending. They ALL bring home the bacon, including RON PAUL. As noted below, Paul is one of the big pork peddlers, but after putting in the pork, he then votes against the bill, knowing it will pass without him–so he can go whole hog and still claim to be against spending:

              “. . .Paul himself has put in for over half a billion dollars in earmarks for his district in the past two fiscal years.

              First, the facts, via the American Independent:

              For FY 2011, Rep. Paul submitted requests for 41 earmarks worth $157,093,544. The previous year, he submitted 54 earmarks totaling a whopping $398,460,640, including $2.5 million for a redevelopment project in Baytown, Texas. Among the essential public services that the earmark would finance were “trash cans…and decorative street lighting.”

              Paul lards up spending bills with pork via earmarks for his Texas district, knowing that the spending bill will pass, then votes against it. He then piously claims he is against pork barrel spending, a practice he has mastered. . .

              Paul was one of only FOUR Republicans to ask for earmarks in the 2011 budget, according to the American Independent. The House Republican Conference voted on extending its voluntary ban on earmarks in November 2010, but Paul ignores it.

              http://news.yahoo.com/ron-pauls-hypocrisy-earmarks-pork-barrel-spending-012000440.html

              I’m not saying Paul’s a bad guy, but I do think we need to be honest about things. We do not have saints in the spending arena.

            • Billy Malone

              He did explain that in one of the debates, it was kind of ask and you may receive but if you don’t ask you get nothing. Again we are talking chump change here and spending he is bad but spending overseas is really bad and that is where the trillion dollar cut would be with RP. Only domestic cuts were the Big 5 agencies that would be shut down.

            • Goethe Behr

              Billy: But it is a matter of principle. To add pork to a bill and then vote against the bill, is “being for it before being against it.”

              I agree with Ron Paul on almost everything, but I am not shy about saying where I disagree with him.

              The point is that we don’t have “good guys” and “bad guys,” and it’s not going to be that simple to fix our problems.

            • Billy Malone

              So long as his was not the decisive vote, no harm, no foul. Now when the brokerage companies did it there was harm big time. Betting against their clients.

            • Goethe Behr

              Billy:

              I actually see it in the same terms. The issue is not his vote. The issue is loading up bills with pork, cynically saying, “because I can,” is the same as Willard taking advantage of government loopholes and preferred treatment.

              In fact, it’s exactly the same. Both said they were against what they were doing, but since it was “free money,” they’d take it, anyway.

              Only four Republicans broke the no-pork pledge, and I just wish he had not been one of them.

            • Billy Malone

              Hey, if he could have brought the troops home and closed up those Big 5, eliminated the long lines at the TSA almost all the problems we face now would have been a distant memory. Just get that heavy boot off the backs of business and it will flourish. We will never regulate and spend our way out of this mess for sure.

              If the voters want more of the same, they got it. I do think I can weather the storm somewhat better than most but I too have some doubt. Everything is paid for anyhow and the junk yard is full of everything I need to keep my cars and house maintained, LOL.

          • Your numbers are misleading. Enormous amount of federal spending in the South is for military bases and pensions both federal and social security if you take them out of the equation numbers are a lot different. In addition the South is filled with Yankees there really is not a South or North since people are transient. Your misinterpretation of the giving states and the taking states reveals “Figures do lie but liars figure”!

            • Goethe Behr

              Mary Jane:

              It doesn’t matter the channels through which the feds distribute their largesse.

              Someone CHOSE to put the military bases and contracts there. They didn’t just fall out of the sky.

              The fact is that states like Mississipi, West Virginia, and Alabama get well over a buck-and-a-half for every dollar they send to Washington, and it’s way past time for that to be corrected.

            • Billy Malone

              But we elect them to ring home the bacon. If they were honest about what they needed their state would starve. I want your state to pay into and mine to get out of. Pork, Pork, we want Pork.

        • Rick Schliesman

          Hey Einstein- check your “facts”. I know conservatives like to think of yourselves as hard-working, right-thinking, morally perfect Über men- almost forgot, WHITE- so how do you process the FACT that the “red states” consistently take far more federal money than they ante up? You don’t have a lot of choices here, in terms of processing this FACT and keeping your dogma pure. You can (1) create a myth that the handful of “minorities” in red states are committing an “entitlement” version of your mythical voter fraud, (2) ignore the fact, or (3) change the subject. Or call Rush Lamebore and ask for instructions….

    • Rick Schliesman

      AMEN!

  • Marlene

    I don’t think secession is too far away for serious consideration by deep-red states, but it’s not even a remote possibility for the deep-blue states. It would be insanely impractical for an inner state to secede along — they would have to secede in a block and form a new nation as a block of states. But then again they would be at the mercy of a hostile US.

    So it’s such an impractical solution to not be worthy of any time to think about it.

    However, it will be interesting to see of the Administration actually responds to the petitions. My bet is they WON’T.

    • Actually the most likely to state to secede would be New Hampshire. Check out the Free State Project.

      Also if the secession is amicable it doesn’t matter whether you’re an interior state or not. The US wouldn’t be hostile towards that state and the state wouldn’t be hostile towards the US.

      But there are other substantial obstacles to secession. If you remember, the proximate cause for the Civil War was a dispute over what happened to federal lands/property. Should a state have to pay part of the national debt to secede? If so, should residents still receive some entitlements (SS, Medicare, etc.).

      It would be extremely hard to strike up a deal that both sides would be happy with.

    • Marlene – if the W.H.’s petitions gets overs 25K signatures, by their own rules, they have to respond. But i’m betting they will respond with “Thank you for your petition, now go kick sand or some equivalent”.

      • Goethe Behr

        Sam: If I were at the White House, I’d send each of the petitions to the House for consideration–without prejudice. Just say there’s grassroots interest in the issue, and it deserves discussion.

        It would be a total nightmare for Representatives. What, exactly, could they possibly do about them? It would be very entertaining.

        • Goethe – I agree, but unless there is a Governor’s, Senator’s, or Representative’s signature at the top or bottom, then it is simply some lowly peon of “We the People” and rates a standard form letter that politely states “up yours”

          • Goethe Behr

            Sam:

            I tend to think strategically, so sometimes, people think I’m stating an opinion, instead of pursuing the outcome of a course of action.

            In this case, I have absolutely no idea what possesses people to sign a secession petition, except to see what will happen, or to exercise a fantasy.

            In this case, I wouldn’t take the petitions seriously, but think of the hassle it would be for House members. The constituents in their states will be watching. Petition signers and sympathizers will expect them to support them, the rest of the people in their district will think they’re insane, if they do.

            I think people signed, thinking they would cause the White House grief, so I think it would be funny if the White House just passed it off to the House.

            • Goethe – I can agree, except 1) the W.H. ask for petitions and the “buck stops here” – and – 2) The house members only recourse is to feed back to the Administration that “We the People” in my district think that you are very screwed up. Wake up and do right for the first time in four years. You can bet the petitioners are not on ADC, but believe anyone could do a better job, and are going around the MSM for polling.

            • Goethe Behr

              Sam:

              (1) No, the White House specifically said they would “respond” to any big petition. They can certainly respond by telling the House to review and come up with a law of some kind.

              But you’re probably right. Session is NOT a federal issue. It’s a state issue. So it would be more appropriate to send the petition to the state houses. Let the governors deal with it. My guess is that the governors would ask for a LEGAL petition–with names and addresses.

              The whole petition idea is absurd. You don’t ask permission to secede. You get your state bretheren together and if you have a majority, you demand it.

              (2) The petitions don’t really mean anything. The idea is that some people have a fantasy about breaking up the Union. There’s no reason given. So my guess is that most of the signers just wanted to see what would happen. It certainly doesn’t “say” anything to anyone about anything.

            • rick schliesman

              I’m guessing you’re not a tea party fan, or a conservative, since you mentioned that you think. As gor the petitioners, it’s my fervent wish that they leave.They have zero abikity to think thru complex issues,no impulse control, and now thins display of “we haven’t been in charge for 4 years, we’re taking the ball and going home” is like the last straw.Go already, let us raise our national IQ in an instant.

            • Goethe Behr

              Rick:

              It’s just muddled thinking, or desperation.

              Look at the “Free State Project.” They want 10,000 libertarians to move to New Hampshire. What a dumb idea. New Hampshire has more than 1.3 million people. That means the entire “project” will only be 3/4 of 1% of the population there.

              North Dakota has less than half that population, and since it’s a larger state, they could have a much bigger impact on local and regional issues.

            • Billy Malone

              It just ain’t that easy.

  • Billy Malone

    With you on that Marlene

  • Goethe Behr

    I have wondered, since I was a kid, how the Civil War was justified. It became a war over slavery, but it began as bad feelings between the raw material states and the industrial states. Seems to me, if a majority of the voting public in any state decides to secede, they should go. After all, the original colonies has separate governments and even currencies. Seems to me, the process could be reversed–just as the 21st Amendment reversed the 18th.

    There will be a small number of extreme voices pushing for secession, but the majority won’t go along. And if I state did secede, I’m not so sure they could trust any other state, to create a new Confederacy. Texas, in particular, hates everybody.

    But the bottom line is that while the extremists are following this pipe dream, they won’t be agitating about issues of consequence, so I wouldn’t be surprised if the administration was very open to letting this play out.

    As a matter of fact, I think the consideration could resolve a lot of the red-blue hostility. It’s easy to hate members if you think you’re stuck with them, but if the secession movement gained steam, the hostility would turn inward: intra-state. The red states would tear themselves apart while the blue states would look on in amusement.

    • Surfisher

      The cracks are beginning to show — Secession is but a precursor!

      • Goethe Behr

        I thought it was really hypocritical of us to celebrate the dissolution of the Soviet Union, when we fought a WAR to keep states from seceding. Also, we were pissed at France for supporting the secession of Quebec years ago.

        Russia was trying to form an alliance of “independent states,” and we did everything we could to keep that from happening. It would truly be poetic justice for our Union to fall apart now.

        • Billy Malone

          Oh, but that could never happen here ? ? ? We are different.

        • Goethe – who cares if we were hypocritical! I would much rather deal with of bunch of little guys instead of a single headed monster with ruling the world on their mind.

          • Goethe Behr

            Sam: Because we claim to be above hypocrisy, and when we are hypocritical, we just show that we are liars.

            As Ron Paul said, we should lead by EXAMPLE.

            Reminds me of the Star Trek episode, in which the alien sets up humans against their historic monsters. In the end, the alien observed that there was no difference between the “good” side and the “evil” side.

            It is also really hard to say with a straight face that we are in favor of democracy, when we destroy it any time we think a country is not going to be our colony.

            • Goethe – you misconstrue. As well as talking out of both sides of your mouth. It was USSR’s business not ours. We are not supposed to directly influence another country. 64% of USSR people wanted to move to a economic economy because the communist economy was eating up all the money at the government level. It was a democratic movement that caused the USSR to break up. The Republics and the people felt they were being being robbed and wanted to dissolve the Union. Russia its self succeeded first, allowing the other Republics to do as they pleased.

              Are you starting to see a pattern here. We were leading by example and Russia eventually tried to follow because communism wasn’t working. They couldn’t transition and one of the biggest reasons was they didn’t have the International trade we did then. Notice, now, OUR imports are greater than our exports.

              Can’t You see the middle of the country trying to create its own USA and the left coast and the west coast try to figure out how to create a communist USSA??

              We are so very close to communism – a one party leadership doing what’s right for the country – taking from the “rich (or workers)” and socializing to the rest. Our international export decreases year on year. The One Party control want’s to further take from the Rich / Workers, continue to use credit cards (even steal from it’s own (SSA and Medicare)), manufacture money, control the MSM. Yessir your buddy BO is doing a great job and Ron Paul’s words are somewhat a dichotomy.

              and btw, i didn’t read anywhere on our platform page that we should lead by example.

              I take exception that we are Colonists. we left ‘Nam to give to communists. we are leaving Iraq to give back to Sunni Muslims, we are leaving Afghan to give back to al Qaeda. how many thousands of our “we the People”‘s lives were wasted. 10:1 of ‘Nam vs others. We originally went there at S.’Nam’s request.

              Kuwait, S. Korea, and Taiwan have all begged us to stay for both economic and ideological reasons.

              Goethe – i have had many exchanges with you some of them parallel – If you’re truly a Libertarian, why do you favor the democratic party so much over the republican party?? If you use a .2sigma variation of the platform it is much closer to republican than democrat. I’m surprised you let your anger over Ryan getting the shaft from the pubs and use your excellent logic.

            • Goethe Behr

              Sam:

              You are the one who is misconstruing. I didn’t say anything at ALL about the USSR. Where did you get that? I agree that it was THEIR business. And the fall of the Soviet Union is a model of THE POWER OF IDEAS–and people standing up–unarmed–and the military being unwilling to fire on unarmed protestors. The idea that guns will overthrow a modern government is just stupid. Only ideas will bring about change–ideas and resolve. Waving six-guns is counterproductive, because it gives the government an excuse to “defend” itself.

              Ron Paul says that you should let people in other countries decide what kind of government they want. It’s their business. And he says, at some point, they will decide they want something different, and they will rise up and change it. They don’t need us turning their civil war into a colonial war, in which we can gain advantage.

              I don’t think we should be doing even as much as we are in Syria.

              Anyway, I was not talking about USSR, I was talking about AFTER it fell. Yeltzin was in charge, and America never had a better friend (dupe?). He was trying to form a “Commonwealth of INDEPENDENT States,” based on the Common Market. The idea was to use the channels they already had to work together, instead of dissolving into little countries that would be vulnerable to criminal, corporate, and foreign influence.

              But our goal was to make Russia as weak as possible, so we overtly and covertly destroyed the Commonwealth. And so, Russia and it’s former associates fell into chaos, with gangsters ripping off the wealth, so that the people were worse off than they were before.

              OK, so your entire premise is backward. I was NOT supporting the USSR.

              And how on earth to do you think we’re close to Communism? The government is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the corporations. Just the opposite of Communism.

              I am not supporting Obama. He went into office pledging to bring our guys home, and what did he do? He went into Afghanistan whole-hog, as well as Pakistan (and other places), and has been blasting drones all over a quarter of the world.

              That is going to come back to bite us in many ways. For one thing, we have set the example that you are allowed to use a drone anywhere, for any purpose. When all the other countries get them, we’ll forget that we were ever worried about nuclear bombs.

              No, the idea of leading by example is not in a platform. It’s in the words of Ron Paul, as noted above.

              I cannot believe that you are trying to deny that we are colonial. You mention Vietnam. Are you serious that we were “invited” by “South Vietnam”??

              Ho Chi Mihn came to the U.S. in the late 40s, and asked us to end colonialism in Vietnam, as we had pressured OTHER countries to divest themselves after World War II. Of course, you could say we were only “anti-colonial” at that time because we knew we had economic advantage, and it would be easier for us to exploit countries if other countries were not already exploiting them.

              Anyway, instead of supporting Vietnam’s integrity, we supported France in keeping its colony–to the point that we were pushing them after they were already sick of it. And after Dien Bein Phu, in 1954, we sent in our own “advisers.” Nobody “invited” us. We did not want self-determination. We wanted control. We even got rid of Diem when we didn’t like his leadership. How dare they have their own leaders?

              And we built up Iraq to battle Iran–because Iran stopped being our buddy, and we wanted to punish them. Our foreign policy is mostly about irrational punishment–look at what we have done to Cuba.

              And I think you mean we handed Iraq over to the Shia, not the Sunni. The Sunni were in charge before we got there, even though the Shia were 2/3 of the population. Today, the Shia are supporting one side of the Syrian war, and the Sunni are supporting the other side.

              As Ron Paul said, Romney looked ridiculous claiming in the debate that the U.S. always does the right thing and is always in favor of democracy. Nonsense. We have almost NEVER been on the side of self-determination for other countries.

              Forget the Democrat/Republican nonsense. Party politics is a smoke screen. And I have NO idea what you’re talking about regarding Ryan. Did you mean to say Ron Paul got the shaft?

            • Goethe – I’m not sure how to really comment back. 1) yes, i was befuddeled and often confuse Ron Paul, Paul Ryan, & Ryan Paul – in all cases here i meant Ron Paul.

              2) In general the US favor’s democracy if at at all possible, is finally trying to let other ideologies go their own way, but in the last 70 years since WWII any aggressive ideology was fought for fear it would start another WW.

              3) In your goal to make the US always look bad, re ‘Nam – Ho Chi Min turned N. ‘Nam Commie in before or during WWII, he wanted us to kick France out so he could turn the whole of ‘Nam Commie. We supported France but their nads were too small so Ike sent in advisers in hopes of preventing another Korea , didn’t turn out that way – hindsight is 20/20, we should have taken N.’Nam out and told them to stay on their side of the fence.

              4) We went into Iraq because Saddamn has had multiple WMD since the 80′s and he had been threatening us since we kicked him him back for invading Kuwait. And yes we turned it over to the Sh’ia but the Sunni will take it back as soon as we pull the last 30K troops out.

              5) USSR / Russia, et. al. – Yes, good or bad – We wanted wanted one less set of entities to worry about – Establish themselves as a free market and we would do trade with them – they still haven’t done it.

              6) As long as BO is in office, he will involve himself in the ideology of Islam. If by a some miracle we are to last him out – then as Communism tried to become world wide and dominant, we will have to eventually re-war against the Mid-East and Islam.

            • Goethe Behr

              Sam:

              (2) It’s simply not true that the U.S. favors democracy. And it’s not about ideology. If you look at our foreign policy, anything we have done has been for economic advantage for our corporations, whether it’s banana wars in South America, or oil wars in the middle east, even the plundering of Japan and China early in the last century.

              I am NOT saying we’re bad people, and I am NOT saying that it will ever change. But as Ron Paul said, we really do need to end the self-delusion that we are “nice people” on the international stage.

              (3) I am not trying to make “the US always look bad.” I am just trying to be–you know–HONEST.

              While it is true that Mao and Ho espoused Communist ideology to throw off the overlords, they could have as easily espoused capitalism.

              Self-determination. Nope. We can’t let that happen.

              And in you’re still playing political party games, note that I say that Ike was wrong and JFK was wrong (except that indications were that he was going to pull out “in the final analysis, it’s THEIR war to win or lose”), and LBJ was wrong, and Nixon was wrong. I am a non-partisan critic.

              I don’t have the handicap of having to defend a party, as you have.

              (4) That is SUCH BS. As Ron Paul said, Bush came into office looking for a rationalization to attack Iraq. 9/11 was all he needed, even though Saddam and bin Laden were mortal enemies.

              Even up to IMMEDIATELY before we sent in troops, the polls showed OVERWHELMING support for the inspectors and NOT war.

              There were no WMD. That was a Cheney whispering campaign that they sent around the world, and since it was all whispers, it felt like it must be true. And since everyone was talking about it, it seemed that it must be real.

              You GOTTA be kidding me. You think a handful of Sunni, who have NO base of power, are going to overcome the Shia, who ARE in power? And you think Iran would stand by and watch that? Dude, you are totally hallucinating.

              (6) Islam? Obama is scared to DEATH of even appearing to have anything to do with Islam. Even today, he is selling the Israeli story of their current battle.

              What you do is look at the timeline, and you tear it off at one point and say, THAT is the beginning, and THAT is the cause. But there is always a crime just before it that they are ignoring.

              And as much as NeoCons would LOVE to reinterpret the Middle East as the Soviet Union, to rationalize more insane buildup, more insane waste of trillions of dollars, I don’t think people are going to buy it. Maybe it’s just the optimist in me.

            • Goethe – i usually vote republican because, for me, the people of the democrat party – not the ideology – are very offensive to me, part of ideology is very bad – Socialism. If anything, i am a libertarian and when i joined and contributed, studied the Platform, it comes as close as any political ideology. But i am even more independent than that.

              Go do internet research on: “Nuclear and Chemical history of Iraq” and “Saddam Hussein’s views and threats towards the US.” Yes Bush was looking for reason to go into Iraq, wrong choice of how – flat, black, and glow in the dark and that would have finished any more business with the whole middle east. then put on radiation suits and farm the oil.

              We should ask who wants to be our friend or at the least leave us alone – anyone who wants to be aggressive gets an EMP. No deaths but final response leave us alone, play ball and do business or get a bat in a$$.

              I guess to your mind, I am a NeoCon – But i am a believer in a modified Golden Rule – Do unto me as you want me to do unto you. Profit margin is important to success plus I wore the uniform for a long time and am still under contract for upto and including my life.

              You can make the US out to be a bad guy all you like, go back far enough and you’ll find a reasonable reason for an action, but the politicians who don’t take advantage of our power suffer in the end. We don’t bow, or dip our flag to anyone. And the politicians who disturb our solvency will be our eventual enemy.

            • Billy Malone

              Now that kind of talk is not going to bring anyone to the negotiating table except out of fear. As for the justification turning back a few pages in history, I always come to the same conclusion, money.

            • Goethe Behr

              Billy:

              Yep. Money. Our foreign policy has always been based on seeking advantage for our corporations–just like everybody else. Money–it makes the world go ’round.

              What I object to is PRETENDING that we “always” seek democracy, and we “always” seek self-determination, and we are “always” the good guy. We are just not “the good guy of the world,” and we should be more honest about it.

            • Billy Malone

              That kind of thinking will get you little money and even less votes. It’s all about, what’s in it for me.

            • Goethe – As i re-read my torrid blabber – i think i intermixed Paul and Ryan, i meant Ron Paul in all cases

            • Goethe Behr

              Sam: Yeah, I figured that out a the end. And I think that’s why Willard picked Paul Ryan, hoping that people would confuse his name with Ron Paul. That’s how Willard thinks.

    • Neville

      Goethe,

      The “Civil War” was never justified. You are right about the beginning reasons for the conflicts, but for those prosecuting the war it never became a war over slavery. Every other nation that ended slavery did so in a peaceful way. We could have gone the way of England, France, Spain, etc. and ended the slave trade and then slave ownership, purchasing and freeing slaves at a far lower monetary cost than the war cost, without the loss of life and creation of lasting hostilities and years of reconstruction.

      Said Lincoln: “My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that.”

      • Billy Malone

        But Americans love war, just read your history book.

        • Goethe Behr

          Billy:

          I generally disagree, since public opinion has usually been against war–until we’re in it.

          But the Civil War was different. People actually came to watch the battle of Gettysburg with picnic lunches, as if they were going to the Coliseum. I think if I were a soldier, seeing people celebrating my imminent death, I think I’d be shooting at THEM.

  • Rick Bailey

    You ae the WORST ImPotus We the People have ever had!!

  • Surfisher

    Ron Paul’s Farewell Speech to Congress — the full 48 minutes unedited and commercial free!

    Powerful words by this Great American — listen and take to heart each and every word!

    SPREAD IT LIKE WILDFIRE!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOgg0LdgTD0&feature=player_embedded

  • Surfisher

    Ron Paul schools Barack Hussein:
    “If you don’t know the Constitution (the one you swore to protect) you shouldn’t be in Office.”

    10 minute video — spread it like wildfire!

    Also, note how without a teleprompter BHO can’t put two words together without mumbling, bumbling and stumbling.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcjt36Txzao&feature=player_embedded

  • Surfisher

    Ron Paul, now back at the helm of the Liberty Movement, will bring sanity back to our nation — with this simple, but most powerful word of all: FREEDOM!

    Must watch 9 minute video — SPREAD IT!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCHZQQ3Ai2k&feature=player_embedded

  • Surfisher

    Nov 14th on FOX Business— Ron Paul tries to educate Barack Hussein on Economics.

    Ron Paul: The Real Issue Is that the Country Is Bankrupt!

    Spread this 5 minute video!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuCjJtD3IqI&feature=player_embedded

  • Surfisher

    C-Span Nov 15th — AMAZING performance by Ron Paul!

    ABSOLUTELY MUST WATCH AND HEAR EACH SENTENCE HE UTTERS — STUNNING, in less than 60 min Ron Paul LAYS THE PATH to our Nation’s Salvation, that in decades no-one else had been able to state!

    Ron Paul not only dissects the rotten, crooked Government we have, but PRECISELY gives the ACTIONS needed to COUNTER this INSANITY in DC, and bring us, We The People, back to Liberty and Prosperity!

    This is truly an AMAZING interview — Ron Paul’s statements are not just spot on, they are brilliant and self-evident to all that still have a mind of their own!

    MUST WATCH — AND SPREAD THIS LIKE WILDFIRE (before it’s too late America)!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8GWTljMw_M&feature=player_embedded

  • Cal

    Seems to me that it’s a sign of the current times.

  • All our problems have accumulated with the influx of illegal aliens, and our border problems.We are over run, and they all get free gov. money, housing, health benefits, even free cell phones. They pay not taxes, and all they free stuff they get takes away from every citizen and we pay for it all…..Unless our gov. is just plain idiots, can’t they figure this out. Or do they promote it for their own benfits. Also, what’s with the electorial system we use to elect officials, let the peoples vote count. That is why we all make the effort to go to the poles and make our choose.

    • Billy Malone

      All our problems have accumulated with the stupidity of our voters. Look it’s real simple: “when somebody does not do the job, we
      got to let them go.”

    • rick schliesman

      Interesting that you seem to have “boiled down” all our problems to immigration. When did YOU get here? We pay gor non-citizens’ medical treatment, at least at emergency rooms, because of a program started BY REAGAN. The “free phones/Obama phones” was another program started BY REAGAN- and it’s funded by donations from the telecommunication companies, so try to unlearn your “belief” that we’re paying for it with our tax dollars. If you need to believe in whatever “Boogeyman of the month” great Americans like Karl Rove, Hannity, etc force feed you, I can only wish you success in your effort to secede.

    • rick schliesman

      Sorry, by the way, Romney got spanked on the popular vote (not as badly as with the electoral college, but he still got his butt kicked), so what’s your beef with the way we decide elections? Either way, your guy lost. If you’re upset the republicans couldn’t prevent enough legal citizens from voting, hang in there- I’m sure in 4 years they’ll figure out better ways to steal people’s right to vote. In the meantime, try to get the message from the last 2 presidential elections; folks like YOU are the extremists. Good luck on seceding…

    • Tess Trueheart

      lilly dyo…The influx of illegal aliens began with our forefathers. Long before Leif Ericson or Christopher Columbus planted a sovereign flag on North American continent soil, this land belonged to the Native Americans, who received no compensation. From the time of Christopher Columbus, prisoners of various kinds figured in the exploration and colonization of America. After 1650, most emigrants to the American colonies went as prisoners of one sort or another. Some were forcibly kidnapped or arrested and shipped against their will; some were tricked or enticed into giving up their liberty; others bound themselves as indentured servants. Between 1717 and 1775, Britain alone transported more than fifty thousand convicts to America.General James Edward Oglethorpe, an English prison reformer and director of the Royal African Company, founded the colony of Georgia in 1732–1733 with colonists obtained from English prisons; South Carolina’s Henry Laurens (later president of the Continental Congress) also trafficked servants and slaves. And many leading colonists, including George Washington, bought and sold both white convicts and African slaves. The Declaration of Independence cited a list of abuses related to the prisoner trade, including complaints that the Crown had obstructed justice, sent swarms of officers to harass the people, deprived many of the benefits of trial by jury, transported persons beyond the seas for pretended offenses, and committed other offenses. Plymouth Colony was founded by a group of people who later came to be known as the “Pilgrims”. During the Hampton Court Conference, King James I had declared the Puritans and Protestant Separatists to be undesirable and, in 1607, the Bishop of York raided the homes and imprisoned several members of the congregation. The congregation thus left England and emigrated to the Netherlands, first to Amsterdam and finally to America in 1619. So, indeed, most of our forefathers could be termed illegal immigrants.

      Presently, there is 11.5 million illegal immigrants in the United States. Of these,140,000 are enrolled in college. 80,000 already have college degrees. This educated force is limited to jobs that do not require proof of citizenship or a work permit, service jobs that pay cash, either in wages or tips, working as restaurant staff members, landscapers, home cleaners, baby sitters or dog walkers. The work permits that young illegal immigrants can now begin applying for next week under a new government policy will allow them to pay taxes and have health insurance. By the way, illegals do not escape paying taxes. When they buy food, clothing, cars, appliances, etc, they pay taxes. Really do not know how to comment on the free cell phone. It actually was signed into law by President George W. Bush in 2008. The program is called “SafeLink Wireless. And the free government money doesn’t just do to indigents. All the tax abatments given to small businesses on up to the biggies like Exxon is free money, just to name a few programs.

  • Rick Schliesman

    PLEASE give these petitions serious consideration. This is an unprecedented opportunity to weed out the “American Taliban”, people who believe a woman’s body can block pregnancy from rape, people who don’t believe the world’s climate is changing, people who insist you were born in Kenya. We can advance our national IQ by generations in a single stroke (at a time when we’re becoming dumber at an alarming rate), without the embarassing stigma of doing so via genocide. Sure, there are logistical problems, but just think “yes we can”! Designate a couple/handful of large, contiguous states (Texas and…), allow all the petition signers to emigrate into those states. As a nice parting gesture, to let them demonstrate their fervent belief in “personal responsibility”, let them pay off their share of the national debt before they leave. Imagine being free of the people who consistently TAKE far more federal money than they contribute! Please consider.
    P.S. A suggestion to help straighten out the corporate tax collection/job creation equation; for any corporation large enough to outsource, the corporation, its management, and owners should be taxed at a rate equal to the percentage of its work force that’s been “outsourced”. 60% of your workers are Indonesian, you pay 60% income tax. No questions, no loopholes, case closed. Make sense?

  • Surfisher

    Secession Is an American Principle!(Ron Paul states it logically in the 4 minute video shown at the end)!
    —————————————————-

    It is not a question of IF, but WHEN, a State will secede!
    And the first viable State to secede will garner the most benefits (with the next States getting a bit less).

    The benefits of Secession are:

    1) The First State (that has a balanced budget) — let us say it’s Texas — will attract all freedom loving Americans. We will move lock-stock-and-barrel in the Millions to Texas in order to escape the impending Doom that is the Welfare-and-Military Tyranny that’s now known as the Washing DC Federal Government.
    Meaning, Texas, will have an influx of Liberty minded people, the REAL Americans, that are the producers, and not the takers.

    2) All GUN-TOTING Federal Agencies will cease to exist in Texas (and that will apply to all other States that eventually secede, equally)!

    No more of these PERNICIOUS Creations of a Government that IS NOW Against the People (and not For the People and Of the People, as our Original Constitution decreed)!

    The alphabet soup of these Federal Agencies was created not to protect us, We The People, but to belittle us, to condition us to obedience, to take away our rights and our individual sovereignty over body soul and private property, to rob us of our income, to give us Promissory Paper Notes and beguile us that that is real money, to tax just about anything and all that we earn or purchase, to take money away even when we are dead (picking a dead man’s pockets Tax), to pay tax on our private property that we own and have developed and improved, to force people without children to pay School Tax, to tell us that to travel is not a right but a “privilege” (drivers license “laws”), to tag us like cattle with a Number (SSN), to intrude so far into our private lives and homes as to tell us how much water we can use to flush down our poop in our toilets, to invade our sanctity as sovereign and free individuals to perpetrate invasive bodily searches at airports, to…and the sad list of our subjugation by GUN TOTING FEDERAL AGENTS goes on, and on, and on….

    Any State that secedes will be rid IMMEDIATELY of ALL these anti-American PERNICIOUS Federal Organizations!
    ——————————————————-

    Here is MSN latest report:

    The Texas petition says the United States is suffering from economic troubles stemming from the federal government’s failure to reform spending. It also complains of alleged rights abuses committed by agencies like the Transportation Security Administration.

    “Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union,” it said.

    Spread this 4 minute video like WILDFIRE!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhQ31b_dbnM&feature=player_embedded

    —————————————————–
    List of all Federal Agencies (most carry guns to enforce their “authority”)!

    The Federal Agency Names listed below can be selected on line 17 of any issue page on the LD-2DS form.

    - A -

    Administration for Children & Families (ACF)

    Administration on Aging

    Advisory Council on Historic Preservation (ACHP)

    African Development Foundation

    Agency for Health Care Policy & Research

    Agency for Toxic Substances & Disease Registry

    Agriculture, Dept of (USDA)

    Air Force, Dept of

    Alcohol & Tobacco Tax & Trade Bureau (TTB)

    Alternative Agr Research & Commercialization Center

    American Battle Monuments Comm

    AMTRAK – Natl Railroad Passenger Corporation

    Appalachian Regional Comm

    Architect of the Capitol (AOC)

    Architectural & Transportation Barriers Compliance Board

    Army, Dept of (Corps of Engineers)

    Army, Dept of (Other)

    - B -

    Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco & Firearms (ATF)

    Bureau of Arms Control

    Bureau of Economic Analysis

    Bureau of Engraving & Printing

    Bureau of Export Administration

    Bureau of Indian Affairs (BIA)

    Bureau of Justice Assistance

    Bureau of Justice Statistics

    Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)

    Bureau of Land Management (BLM)

    Bureau of Reclamation

    Bureau of the Public Debt

    Bureau of Transportation Statistics

    - C -

    Centers For Disease Control & Prevention (CDC)

    Centers For Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS)

    Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)

    Commerce, Dept of (DOC)

    Commodity Futures Trading Comm (CFTC),

    Congressional Budget Office (CBO)

    Consumer Product Safety Comm (CPSC)

    Corporation for Natl & Community Service

    Corporation for Public Broadcasting

    Corrections Program Office

    Council of Economic Advisers (CEA)

    Council on Environmental Quality (CEQ)

    - D -

    Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency (DARPA)

    Defense Business Transformation Agency (BTA)

    Defense Commissary Agency

    Defense Contract Audit Agency (DCAA)

    Defense Department Field Activities

    Defense Finance & Accounting Agency (DFAS)

    Defense Information Systems Agency

    Defense Intelligence Agency (DIA)

    Defense Investigative Service (DIS)

    Defense Legal Services Agency

    Defense Logistics Agency

    Defense Nuclear Facilities Safety Board

    Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA)

    Defense Security Services

    Defense Special Weapons Agency

    Defense Threat Reduction Agency (DTRA)

    Defense, Dept of (DOD)

    Director of National Intelligence (ODNI)

    Drug Court Program Office

    Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA)

    - E -

    Economic Development Administration

    Education, Dept of

    Election Assistance Comm (EAC)

    Employment & Training Administration

    Employment Standards Administration

    Energy, Dept of

    Environmental Protection Agency (EPA)

    Equal Employment Opportunity Comm (EEOC)

    Executive Office of the President (EOP)

    Export-Import Bank of the United States (EXIM Bank)

    - F -

    Farm Credit Administration

    Federal Accounting Standards Advisory Board (FASAB)

    Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)

    Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI)

    Federal Bureau of Prisons (BOP)

    Federal Communications Comm (FCC)

    Federal Deposit Insurance Comm (FDIC)

    Federal Election Comm (FEC)

    Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA)

    Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC)

    Federal Highway Administration (FHA)

    Federal Housing Finance Board (FHFB)

    Federal Labor Relations Authority (FLRA)

    Federal Law Enforcement Training Center

    Federal Management Service

    Federal Maritime Comm

    Federal Mediation & Conciliation Service

    Federal Mine Safety Health Review Comm (FMSHRC)

    Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

    Federal Railroad Administration

    Federal Reserve System

    Federal Retirement Thrift Investment Board

    Federal Trade Comm (FTC)

    Federal Transit Administration (FTA)

    Financial Crimes Enforcement Network (FinCEN)

    Financial Management Service (FMS)

    Food & Drug Administration (FDA)

    - G -

    General Services Administration (GSA)

    Ginnie Mae

    Government Accountability Office (GAO)

    Government Printing Office (GPO)

    - H -

    Health & Human Services, Dept of (HHS)

    Health Resources & Services Administration (HRSA)

    Homeland Security, Dept of (DHS)

    House of Representatives

    Housing & Urban Development, Dept of (HUD)

    - I -

    Indian Health Service

    Institute of Museum and Library Services (IMLS)

    Inter-American Foundation

    Interior, Dept of (DOI)

    Internal Revenue Service (IRS)

    Intl Trade Administration (ITA)

    - J -

    Job Corp

    Joint Chiefs of Staff

    Joint Service Schools

    Justice, Dept of (DOJ)

    - L -

    Labor, Dept of (DOL)

    Legal Services Corporation

    Library of Congress (LOC)

    - M -

    Marine Mammal Comm

    Maritime Administration (MARAD)

    Medicare Payment Advisory Comm (MedPAC)

    Merit Systems Protection Board

    Mine Safety & Health Administration (MSHA)

    Mine Safety & Health Review Comm

    Minerals Management Service

    Minority Business Development Agency

    - N -

    Natl Aeronautics & Space Administration (NASA)

    Natl Archives & Records Administration (NARA)

    Natl Bioethics Advisory Comm

    Natl Capital Planning Comm (NCPC)

    Natl Comm Libraries & Information Science (NCLS)

    Natl Council on Disability

    Natl Credit Union Administration (NCUA)

    Natl Economic Council (NEC)

    Natl Endowment for the Arts

    Natl Endowment for the Humanities

    Natl Foundation on the Arts & Humanities

    Natl Geospatial Intelligence Agency

    Natl Guard

    Natl Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)

    Natl Indian Gaming Comm

    Natl Institute of Justice

    Natl Institute of Mental Health (NIMH)

    Natl Institute of Standards & Technology (NIST)

    Natl Institute on Alcohol Abuse & Alcoholism (NIAA)

    Natl Institutes of Health (NIH)

    Natl Labor Relations Board (NLRB),

    Natl Mediation Board

    Natl Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration (NOAA)

    Natl Park Service (NPS)

    Natl Science Foundation (NSF)

    Natl Security Agency (NSA)

    Natl Security Council (NSC)

    Natl Technical Information Service

    Natl Telecomm & Info Administration (NTIA)

    Natl Transportation Safety Board (NTSB)

    Navy, Dept of

    Nuclear Regulatory Comm (NRC)

    - O -

    Occupational Safety & Health Administration (OSHA)

    Occupational Safety & Health Review Comm

    Office for Victims of Crime

    Office of Administration

    Office of Faith-Based & Community Initiatives

    Office of Government Ethics (OGE)

    Office of Justice Program

    Office of Juvenile Justice & Delinquency Prevention

    Office of Management & Budget (OMB)

    Office of Natl AIDS Policy

    Office of Natl Drug Control Policy (NDCP)

    Office of Personnel Management (OPM)

    Office of Policy Development

    Office of Science & Technology Policy (OSTP)

    Office of Special Counsel

    Office of Surface Mining Reclamation & Enforcement

    Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC)

    Office of the Secretary of Defense

    Office of the Vice President of the United States

    Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS)

    On-Site Inspection Agency

    Overseas Private Investment Corp (OPIC)

    - P -

    Panama Canal Comm

    Patent & Trademark Office (PTO)

    Peace Corps

    Pension & Welfare Benefits Administration

    Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC)

    Pentagon Force Protection Agency

    Pipeline & Hazardous Materials Safety Administration

    Postal Rate Comm

    Postal Regulatory Comm

    President of the U.S.

    Program Support Center

    - R -

    Railroad Retirement Board

    Research & Innovative Technology Administration

    Risk Management Agency

    - S -

    Securities & Exchange Comm (SEC)

    Selective Service System

    Senate

    Small Business Administration (SBA)

    Smithsonian Institution

    Social Security Administration (SSA)

    St. Lawrence Seaway Development Corporation

    State Justice Institute

    State, Dept of (DOS)

    Substance Abuse & Mental Health Srv Admin (SAMHSA)

    Surface Transportation Board (STB)

    - T -

    Technology Administration

    Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA)

    Trade & Development Agency (TDA)

    Transportation Security Administration (TSA)

    Transportation, Dept of (DOT)

    Treasury, Dept of

    - U -

    U.S. Access Board – Architectural & Transportation Barriers Compliance Board

    U.S. Agency for International Development (USAID)

    U.S. Arms Control & Disarmament Agency

    U.S. Botanic Garden

    U.S. Chemical Safety & Hazard Investigation Board

    U.S. Citizenship & Immigration Services (USCIS)

    U.S. Coast Guard (USCG)

    U.S. Comm of Fine Arts

    U.S. Comm on Civil

    U.S. Comm on International Religious Freedom

    U.S. Copyright Office

    U.S. Customs & Border Protection

    U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service (USFWS)

    U.S. Forest Service

    U.S. Geological Survey (USGS)

    U.S. Immigration & Customs Enforcement (ICE)

    U.S. Information Agency (USIA)

    U.S. Institute of Peace

    U.S. International Development Cooperation Agency

    U.S. International Trade Comm (ITC)

    U.S. Marines

    U.S. Marshals Service

    U.S. Mint

    U.S. Natl Central Bureau – Intl Criminal Police Org

    U.S. Postal Service (USPS)

    U.S. Secret Service

    U.S. Trade Representative (USTR)

    USA Freedom Corps

    - V -

    Veterans Affairs, Dept of (VA)

    Veterans Employment & Training Service

    Vice President of the U.S.

    Violence Against Women Program

    Voice of America

    - W -

    White House Office

    • Billy Malone

      Just toss a few darts at the board and presto, the budget is balanced.

      • Not Exactly Billy, because you can’t dissolve some of those “targets” that need paid back the 11Tetrabuck owed “we the people”, so we can come close to balancing the budget but we will still have huge credit card payment to contend with over time. The $11T owed us for Bonds, SSA, Medicare, the states for roads (etc) from gasoline taxes, so on and the $6T owed other counties (over $3T to China and Japan alone).

        • Billy Malone

          I took Jackson some 40 years to do it but it can be done. Just have to clone him from a DNA sample. As you know he was the only guy in American history to do it. I have read it was living hell though to live in the USA during said process. Not the whole 40 years, just when he got elected. If you couldn’t pay for it it didn’t get done.

          • Billy – I support that – even tho you dislike M.R., he said, if we have to put it on a credit card we don’t do it.

            I like that plan, i might loose my house as a result because my pay, now that i’m retired is SSA (pd into for 52 yrs), medicare (pd into since ’64) and Mil (DFAS – served full and part time for 30 yrs)

            A lot of kickin’ and screamin’ but bet we could balance budget within 3 yrs and pay off credit cards within 10 years without devaluing the $.

            • Billy Malone

              I kind of disagree. As for MR what he said and what he did as governor are two different things. Nothing wrong with borrowing if you see a payback that is worth more than the interest you are having to pay. Now with the government they invest in reverse for the American people . They pass regulations that force American dollars to be spent overseas but you can be sure they get a kickback. I call it treason but they get away with it all the time.

  • Goethe Behr

    On the wrong thread, Sam said:

    Tess – you got it, but unfortunately you can’t get Perry to sign along with the other 50,000 and i can’t get Hickenlooper (D) to sign along with our few thousand. But it would be sweet for a huge block of the states to secede and leave the West Coast and the Left Coast to figure out how screwed up they are, and their 17 Tetrabuck deficit. We will remain the USA and the rest of ‘em can become the USSA.

    My response:

    Sam:

    I don’t see any reason why a governor would have to sign. It’s not a legal document, anyway, so it cannot have weight of law. It’s just an exercise in futility.

    It’s like writing a petition that Santa Claus come this year. Not gonna make a lick of difference.

    I really don’t care. If the majority of a state wants to secede, fine. Let them take their portion of the debt, and hand back anything that belongs to the federal government that is on their soil. As I noted, most of the states that are babbling about seceding are getting $1.50 of federal funds for every dollar they pay in, so we’ll be better off without them.

    I suppose the federal government could refuse to recognize American citizenship of people of that state. Otherwise, the state could expel all of its poor people and prisoners.

    But this was on the wrong thread, so I jumped it to the right place.

    • Surfisher

      Goethe Behr —

      Such QUALIFYING Petitions of Secession serve as a No Confidence Vote to Barack Hussein (and the Fed Gov).

      As such, they are not exercises in futility — the White House MUST respond DIRECTLY (and the language used in that response would determine the next steps of the petitioners).

      As far as any State seceding — the question is not the pay back of the federal deficit (since it was created by the Fed Gov), BUT getting the proportional GOLD BULLION due to said State from Fort Knox (if any such Gold still remains there)!

      Of Course the Fed Gov will not recognize such as US Citizens — and why would Free Texans (should Texas secede first) care about it — the whole idea is to reject a Federal Gov that is no longer working in the interest of the US People, but IS ACTIVELY engaged in working AGAINST its own Citizens!

      Look at this with Logic (since you have it backwards by your post).

      The District of Columbia (Washington, DC) — where the White House and all Federal Governmental Agencies reside — have passed the point by their anti-American-anti-Constitution ACTIVITIES that they have FORFEITED THE RIGHT to be called the USA. De facto, THEY have already SECEDED from the Union by constitutional default, and any State that wants to secede from THEM is a State that wants to RETURN BACK to the original CONSTITUTIONAL USA!

  • Surfisher

    (Here is the short version–so you can easily spread it!)

    Ron Paul — *Secession Is an American Principle*
    ————————————————

    It is not a question of IF, but WHEN, a State will secede!
    And the first viable State to secede will garner the most benefits (with the next States getting a bit less).

    The benefits of Secession are:

    1) The First State (that has a balanced budget) — let us say it’s Texas — will attract all freedom loving Americans. We will move lock-stock-and-barrel in the Millions to Texas in order to escape the impending Doom that is the Welfare-and-Military Tyranny that’s now known as the Washing DC Federal Government.
    Meaning, Texas, will have an influx of Liberty minded people, the REAL Americans, that are the producers, and not the takers.

    2) All GUN-TOTING Federal Agencies will cease to exist in Texas (and that will apply to all other States that eventually secede, equally)!

    No more of these PERNICIOUS Creations of a Government that IS NOW Against the People (and not For the People and Of the People, as our Original Constitution decreed)!

    The alphabet soup of these Federal Agencies was created not to protect us, We The People, but to belittle us, to condition us to obedience, to take away our rights and our individual sovereignty over body soul and private property, to rob us of our income, to give us Promissory Paper Notes and beguile us that that is real money, to tax just about anything and all that we earn or purchase, to take money away even when we are dead (picking a dead man’s pockets Tax), to pay tax on our private property that we own and have developed and improved, to force people without children to pay School Tax, to tell us that to travel is not a right but a “privilege” (drivers license “laws”), to tag us like cattle with a Number (SSN), to intrude so far into our private lives and homes as to tell us how much water we can use to flush down our poop in our toilets, to invade our sanctity as sovereign and free individuals to perpetrate invasive bodily searches at airports, to…and the sad list of our subjugation by GUN TOTING FEDERAL AGENTS goes on, and on, and on….

    Any State that secedes will be rid IMMEDIATELY of ALL these anti-American PERNICIOUS Federal Organizations!
    ——————————————————-

    Here is MSN latest report:

    The Texas petition says the United States is suffering from economic troubles stemming from the federal government’s failure to reform spending. It also complains of alleged rights abuses committed by agencies like the Transportation Security Administration.

    “Given that the state of Texas maintains a balanced budget and is the 15th largest economy in the world, it is practically feasible for Texas to withdraw from the union,” it said.

    Spread this 4 minute video like WILDFIRE!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhQ31b_dbnM&feature=player_embedded

  • Surfisher

    Ron Paul: You’re Not FREE if you Can’t Secede from an Oppressive Government!

    4 minutes —Spread it like wildfire!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8RrBCT_NXI&feature=player_embedded

    • Goethe Behr

      Surfisher: I agree that if states join a union–and yet maintain their separate identities and governments–then they should be able to rescind their membership.

      The question is how to go about it. A silly anonymous petition isn’t the way to do it. I don’t think a petition or a congressional law or a governor’s statement would do it. You’d have to change the NATURE of the state.

      It seems to me that a state constitutional amendment would be the only way to do it. Simply put into the state constitution that the state severs ties with the rest of the United States.

      HOWEVER, the Civil War is a precedent for “protecting the Union.” Luckily, I don’t think it will ever get to the point where the question will have to be answered.

      • Billy Malone

        Look, it’s an easy fix, just elect the right guy in office. And when somebody does not do the job, we got to let them go.

        • Goethe Behr

          Billy:

          We’re talking about secession here. I think a simple amendment to a state constitution could do it. Just change their identity.

          • Billy Malone

            LOL we both no nothing is simple with the government. The states are in as bad a shape as the U S Government with their underfunded pensions. When Calif chose Brown over Whitman I knew the voters would have it in no other way. They don’t want the problems fixed.

            • Goethe Behr

              Billy: And that’s why I think the whole secession thing is idiocy. I’m sure the White House is chortling about all the wasted time and energy over this silly issue. They are probably trying to figure a way to keep it alive. That’s why I think Obama will probably announce that the petitions are being forwarded to the governors’ offices.

    • Billy Malone

      Yeah and Bush made it pretty difficult to even get out yourself.

  • Surfisher

    Is all the recent talk of secession mere sour grapes over the election, or perhaps something deeper? Currently there are active petitions in support of secession for all 50 states, with Texas taking the lead in number of signatures. Texas has well over the number of signatures needed to generate a response from the administration, and while I wouldn’t hold my breath on Texas actually seceding, I believe these petitions raise a lot of worthwhile questions about the nature of our union.

    Is it treasonous to want to secede from the United States? Many think the question of secession was settled by our Civil War. On the contrary; the principles of self-governance and voluntary association are at the core of our founding. Clearly Thomas Jefferson believed secession was proper, albeit as a last resort. Writing to William Giles in 1825, he concluded that states:

    “should separate from our companions only when the sole alternatives left, are the dissolution of our Union with them, or submission to a government without limitation of powers.”

    Keep in mind that the first and third paragraphs of the Declaration of Independence expressly contemplate the dissolution of a political union when the underlying government becomes tyrannical.

    Do we have a “government without limitation of powers” yet? The Federal government kept the Union together through violence and force in the Civil War, but did might really make right?

    Secession is a deeply American principle. This country was born through secession. Some felt it was treasonous to secede from England, but those “traitors” became our country’s greatest patriots.

    There is nothing treasonous or unpatriotic about wanting a federal government that is more responsive to the people it represents. That is what our Revolutionary War was all about and today our own federal government is vastly overstepping its constitutional bounds with no signs of reform. In fact, the recent election only further entrenched the status quo. If the possibility of secession is completely off the table there is nothing to stop the federal government from continuing to encroach on our liberties and no recourse for those who are sick and tired of it.

    Consider the ballot measures that passed in Colorado and Washington state regarding marijuana laws. The people in those states have clearly indicated that they are ready to try something different where drug policy is concerned, yet they will still face a tremendous threat from the federal government. In California, the Feds have been arresting peaceful medical marijuana users and raiding dispensaries that state and local governments have sanctioned. This shouldn’t happen in a free country.

    It remains to be seen what will happen in states that are refusing to comply with the deeply unpopular mandates of Obamacare by not setting up healthcare exchanges. It appears the Federal government will not respect those decisions either.

    In a free country, governments derive their power from the consent of the governed. When the people have very clearly withdrawn their consent for a law, the discussion should be over. If the Feds refuse to accept that and continue to run roughshod over the people, at what point do we acknowledge that that is not freedom anymore? At what point should the people dissolve the political bands which have connected them with an increasingly tyrannical and oppressive federal government? And if people or states are not free to leave the United States as a last resort, can they really think of themselves as free?

    If a people cannot secede from an oppressive government, they cannot truly be considered free.

  • Surfisher

    Ron Paul: You’re Not FREE if you Can’t Secede from an Oppressive Government

    “In a free country, governments derive their power from the consent of the governed. When the people have very clearly withdrawn their consent for a law, the discussion should be over. If the Feds refuse to accept that and continue to run roughshod over the people, at what point do we acknowledge that that is not freedom anymore? At what point should the people dissolve the political bands which have connected them with an increasingly tyrannical and oppressive federal government? And if people or states are not free to leave the United States as a last resort, can they really think of themselves as free?”

    Spread this 4 minute message like wildfire!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8RrBCT_NXI&feature=player_embedded

    My Take:

    The District of Columbia (Washington, DC) — where the White House and all Federal Governmental Agencies reside — have passed the point by their anti-American-anti-Constitution ACTIVITIES that they have FORFEITED THE RIGHT to be called the USA. De facto, THEY have already SECEDED from the Union by constitutional default, and any State that wants to secede from THEM is a State that wants to RETURN BACK to the original CONSTITUTIONAL USA!

    • Surfisher

      Faced with a MANDATORY Response to the Secession Petitions — two top chickens from the White House have flown the coop — Barack Hussein left for Asia, and Hiltlery Clinton is Israel bound!

      These two may run, but won’t be able to escape how their underlings respond!

  • Surfisher

    *I Dreamt of Free America* (a friend of mine that escaped the Soviet Block in 1968 asked me to post this for him):

    “I lived in a Communist Country that was totalitarian. In the morning I woke up to TV news that told me how great our Socialist Government was, then read the same in their newspapers, while waiting in line for bread. I was then 16 years old.

    My parents went to work before the break of dawn, and came home exhausted each day after 7pm. The meager dinners we had were the best of times — my parents taught me not to believe the lies the communists told, but to dream that there is a truly FREE COUNTRY called America, where we’ll all try to escape to someday!

    School I hated — it was six days a week back then — and all they taught us was how great our socialist leaders were, and how wonderful the world would be once Communism is achieved.

    Every other Sunday, my parents and I (just like all our neighbors) had to attend in a basement the local Commissar’s mandatory gathering. Here, all had to pledge allegiance to our Socialist Republic, and have us tell on neighbors and friends who might be an Enemy of the State. The Commissar always made a patriotic call that ANY CHILDREN, that have seen or heard, their parents say something against the State MUST report them, since that is how our country would be saved from internal foes.

    I’m sadden to recall that there were a few children that reported their own parents (these children did get an extra allowance of candy, AND THE RARE Chocolate bar…and we envied them, since Chocolate was an unheard of luxury back then), but next time we never saw their parents….

    But I loved my parents and respected them — and no Chocolate bar could ever replace them.

    We did escape in 1968 — and came to Freedom, the Greatest Country in the World back then, the USA!

    My parents died in the 1980′s, and I no longer mourn them — because I’m happy they did not live to see what this nation has become!”
    ——————————————————

    “Right now our USA is no different than the communist country I escaped from over 40 years ago!

    Please, do not let my tale die with me.”

    • Surfisher – Those of us who lived through the 40′s, 50′s and 60′s would read in less biased media and TV than now about life in the USSR and compare to our own lives. I have such sympathy for your friend. Those who lived in Communes in the 70′s didn’t take long to figure out they were actually in Totalitarianism / Communism and there existed a hierarchy as well.

      Women’s suffrage was dealt with years before and if religion would have stayed out of the way abortion would have never been an issue. racial discrimination finally was resolved until liberals in defense of BO and BO himself recreated racism again.

      Our country was still better and more free than any other country (except Switzerland) in the world. Liberals weren’t so far left and conservatives weren’t so far right. And 98.75% knew that socialism or communism was not a solution.

      • Billy Malone

        I think freedom may be defined as the country with the fewest restrictions. I think the USA comes in right with Mitt’s track record here, DEAD LAST.

        • Surfisher

          Spot on!

          See the below:

          Illegal Everything…in America!

          re: John Stossel (from FOX News)— spread this video like Wildfire, showing that nearly All our Liberties are GONE!
          ———————————————————

          It is estimated that over 1/2 Billion Negative Laws, Rules and Regulations have been created by the Federal Government in the last 40 years.

          This number is STAGGERING — More NEGATIVE LAWS than there are Americans (counting all men, women and children in the USA) TELLING US WHAT WE CANNOT DO (thus negative laws) upon the THREAT Of GOVERNMENTAL PUNISHMENT!

          All these UNCONSTITUTIONAL LAWS are enforced by gun-totting UNIFORMS — if you have not run afoul of such, try selling Lemonade on our lawn…and see how many gun-toting Uniforms will come to shut you down by the threat of their guns they so proudly wear!
          ———————————————————

          Some are awakening to the fact that Our Citizens have become the most government controlled peoples on this Planet today!

          These Few Enlightened Citizens, these Brave Patriots, these pure Souls in search of TRUE Justice and Liberty for All, have started petitions in all 50 States to Secede from the Federal Government that by its anti-Constitutional and anti-American ACTIVITIES has FORFEITED THE RIGHT to be called the USA.

          The goal of the Secession Petitions is not to break away from the Union, but to negate the Unconstitutional Powers that Washington, DC has usurped for their own anti-American interests, and return ALL States to the Original (Organic) US Constitution!

          It is shameful that the Main Stream Media, and their parroting, brainless shills, have such fear of the Truth, and are spreading false and silly accusations to this American Principle — Secession (if we did not Secede from Tyrannical England, we would not be called Americans)!

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CFfVeXhtRa0

          • Rick Schliesman

            Spot on to you, too! Did you know we have the highest percentage of population in prison, at least among countries that have heard about the discovery of the wheel! And yet, we still buy all the propaganda about “the land of the free”, shoved down our throats by governments that are a lot more skilled at advertising & demographics than they are at conducting democracy.

            • Billy Malone

              Just saw a picture of a highway going around both front and back of a house in China because the guy wouldn’t get out. Like to see something like that happening in a “free” country where you are allowed to “own” property. Hell the government will move you out here even if a private company want you out.

  • Surfisher

    NEWS FLASH — “Texans going wild with ‘secession fever,’ bumper stickers everywhere”!

    See it on MSN.com — since link not allowed to post here.

    • Rick Schliesman

      Please relay my sincere wishes to the good folk of Texas (and all other secessionists); “don’t let the door hit your ass on your way out”. I’ll help y’all pack and/or move, just as long as you promise to take Rick Perry and the Bushes. Wishing you all the best in your new country; may I suggestion “American Talibania” as a name for your latest simplistic “solution” to a perceived problem (try to develop some impulse control). You all must be giddy with excitement at this chance to show “liberal pukes” how to run a country the right way. Think of how you’ll lead the way in science and technology, led by brilliant minds like Todd Akin and Michele Bachmann! You’ll be free to force hundreds of thousands of unwanted births every year while you bloviate about personal freedoms and Constitutional rights. You’ll have to tackle a few ugly truths, things that you were probably never even aware of (because you get all your “information” from Feaux News), like the fact that the (soon to be) former “red states” have consistently TAKEN far more federal money than they have contributed, year after year, but you can put great economic experts to work here, like Herman Cain and Paul Ryan. Just don’t ask Ryan for any specifics… Oh, and you won’t be able to blame any of your problems on “the liberal media”, because in your new Eden of “Freedoms and Rights”, you almost surely will not allow any news reporting that doesn’t mesh with your beliefs, no matter how illogically and un-scientifically those beliefs were formed.
      Oh, you’re gonna need a new Constitution, let me start you off with a couple of rock-ribbed conservative ideals. Article #1- citizens have the right of free speech, as long as what they have to say is approved by the (newly created) federal Conservative Ideology Central Scrutinizer. Article #2- all residents will have to pass an English literacy test, except the white folks. Article #3- congress shall not interfere with any form of religion, as long as it’s Evangelical. The legitimacy of “fringe” religions, such as Roman Catholic, Protestant, Baptist, Mormon, will be ruled on, at the earliest possible date, by the Central Scrutinizer (Jews and Muslims, forget it). Come to think of it, there would be a better name for your country than Talibania, but “IRAN” is already taken.
      In conclusion, you folks can’t leave fast enough! I’m so sick of watching you try to drag this country back to the Middle Ages I could spit. PLEASE go off on your own, and show the rest of us how “right” you were all along. Just don’t try to come back after you fail. And don’t bother crying for help when you fall on your faces. I, for one, will just laugh in your vacuous, stupid faces. G’bye…..

  • LINDA SAUNDERS

    THIS NEEDS TO STOP THERE ARE SO MANY PEOPLE DESTROYED AND SUFFERING. IT IS NOT RIGHT. OUR CHILDREN ARE INNOCENT AND DO NOT DESERVE THIS. SOMEONE HAS TO HAVE THE GUTS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS. I HAVE CONTACTED ELLEN, DR. PHIL, OPRAH I WILL NOT STOP UNTIL SOMEONE LISTENS

  • Daisy

    Rick,

    Why don’t you pack it up and move to Europe? You will feel right at home with the other Godless socialists who have allowed libral policies to bankrupt their countries and their identities. Be prepared to pay for ice, water, public restrooms, and seating in public places because anything that can be charged, will be, for nothing there is FREE!

    Get use to taking prozac, lexapro or wellbutrin since depression is rampant and psychiatric treatment care is common in countries who have lost their nationalism and patriotism. Invest in anti-car theft devices and a home alarm system for without them your personal property is an easy mark for skilled thieves.

    But for now, don’t mess with Texas! They don’t understand your kind for they are rugged people who still believe in the golden rule and using “steel justice” when necessary. Oh yeah, you won’t find any guns in Europe, but you will find plenty of cameras who will record your every move and report your slightest infractions to big brother.

    • Billy Malone

      Yeah but it took them a lot longer to get to the point we are at here in the USA.

      • Daisy

        Why is that Billy?

      • Rick Schliesman

        Bill, moving to Europe’s a little drastic, especially considering the huge language problem I have. I’m thinking a better option would be to stay where I am, and do anything possible to nurture this noble secession movement. Best idea I’ve heard in decades.

        • Billy Malone

          Oh if I were not so cheap I’d move to Paris tomorrow. If you are not British the language is no problem as the people really try to help you out. But things are really expensive over there. Got a friend who moved to mainland China and celebrated the 4th of July with really big fireworks. Can’t have them here as big brother says they are too dangerous.

    • Rick Schliesman

      Wow, just read your ENTIRE screed to me (just part of 1st para came thru in 1st e-mail). Sounds like life’s just one big cartoon to you. Everything’s black & white, nice and simple, and if things get too complicated, there’s always a gun rack in the back of the pickup. Ever actually BEEN to Europe, or are you just parroting crap you hear from Rush Lamebore? You sure you’re really from Texas, because I’ve been there a bunch of times, and one of my favorite “Tex-pressions” is that somebody “ought not to be talkin’ about things he ain’t never seen”.
      And in your cartoon world, I’m sure I’m just another “liberal puke”, but I’m in favor of the death penalty (with certain additions to discourage prosecutorial misconduct), I’m in favor of deporting illegals, I own multiple firearms that I’m totally comfortable with, and I worked carpentry and construction for 40 years. Oh, and I used to go see Jerry Jeff Walker (“the pride of Oneonta N.Y.- he ain’t from Texas any more than the Bushes), before he started vacuuming coke. How’s that fittin’ into the old cartoon? Viva Terlingua!

      • Daisy

        Rick,

        I have relatives and friends in Europe (England, France and Hungary to be exact) so I am well aware of what happens over there. I also keep up with the blogs and have pen pals in many places in the world.

        I don’t know if you are a “liberal puke”, but I do know that liberals have helped mess up this once great country of ours. They have bought into the politically correct rhetoric and they are more interested in upholding personal choices instead of the collective good for society. Morality and accountability are vastly eroding and young people now expect the government to meet their basic needs of food, shelter, utlilites (including cell phones) and health care. If that weren’t enough people are trying to become absolved of their student loans and are defaulting on them at record speed. Heck, school teachers in Buffalo New York can now have ALL of their plastic surgery paid for, courtesy of the tax payers there!

        I also have been to Texas many times and may someday retire in the Hill country. Fredericksburg is one of my favorite places there.

        If Texans want to secede from the Union, let them. I am sure all the red states (especially the southern ones) will quickly follow, if we keep sliding down the financial cliff into a third world abyss.

        Liberals are all broth and no beans! Another Tex-pression.

        As the Road Runner likes to say “Beep Beep”.

        • Billy Malone

          I think we need liberals just as much as we need conservatives. Guess one might say they are both necessary evils. Each wants the playing field tilted in their direction.

          • Billy – can’t say i agree with that. what we don’t need is a one dimensional ideology, totalitarianism, monarchy, socialism, or two ideologies so different they are destroying this country.

            • Billy Malone

              But one size will never fit all. Depends a lot on the neighborhood.

            • Goethe Behr

              Billy:

              Yeah. I had a history teacher who was really the sports chief, but they felt they should make him a teacher, too. But one thing that he said that stuck with me is that the country moves in cycles, like a pendulum. And I think that’s why we have done so well. We have micro-mini revolutions all the time. I’m a lot more optimistic than most of the people on here, even if I do like to pull chains sometimes. Idiocy like the secession thing lets people blow off steam, so even that goofy waste of time is a good thing. Don’t want steam bottled up.

            • Sure hope you and your teacher are correct, certainly a prettier picture / future than what i see at this low level

            • Billy Malone

              t can and will get turned around but in the words of Ross Perot, “There are guys driving around in BMWs that couldn’t hold down the 3rd shift at the Dairy Queen and they ain’t coming out of them cars easy”. (not exact but close)

            • Goethe Behr

              Billy: Reminds me of that show, Undercover Boss. They air it to try to make you think, as the Chinese have, that there’s a “good emperor,” but the middle managers cause all the trouble.

              But the thing I saw, over and over, was that these pointy-headed MBAs could never survive in the world we live in. Several were fired–from their own company–because they were inept. Yet they’re bringing home 50 times the money these people get for being competent.

            • Billy Malone

              Look I think it’s great that guys like Romney can maneuver themselves into a position to receive the benefits they get. They are smart, very smart and I don’t hold that against them in any way. If the playing field were level I doubt they would be able to accumulate such enormous compensation for so little if any contribution.

            • Goethe Behr

              Billy:

              Exactly. I am not for taking away from the rich what they already have. But since the late 1970s, the system has been stacked in favor of the tiny few, and we need to begin to level the playing field going forward.

            • Billy Malone

              I would like to think of the dot coms as an example of a somewhat level playing field although with some states taxing them it is tilted. But take a company like e bay. Easy to compete against but so far not much competition.

            • Goethe Behr

              Billy:

              Yeah. That is odd, isn’t it? There are a lot of local auctions now. Maybe they are providing the competition. And, of course, there’s Craig’s List, which is FREE to both sides of the deal.

              But yeah, I have faith that things will get better. And if they don’t it’s still easier to live thinking so.

            • Billy Malone

              I think e bay owns 25% of CL.

            • Billy Malone

              I think e bay owns 25% of CL. E bay from 29 to 52 bucks a share in 1 year. Doing a lot better than GM for sure.

            • Goethe Behr

              Billy:

              That surprises me. You keep hearing about people pissed off about the way they do business. I spent many thousands of dollars on eBay, but got fed up with them.

              Sorry to hear that they have their claws in Craig’s List.

            • Billy Malone

              I’ve heard that from many an e bay user. My old GF got hit for a couple of hundred but so far I can’t complain.

            • Goethe Behr

              Billy: I got to know one of the sellers well enough that he trusted me. He said that they are careful to watch so that people don’t bid up their own stuff, but all you have to do is find someone elsewhere in the country, get to trust each other, and then watch each other’s auctions. If it isn’t high enough, the “friend” bids it up to the minimum you’re wiling to take. AND, of course, if you have a “pidgeon” on the line, tell them to bid it up as far as he think it will go. Sometimes people are willing to pay almost anything–and they do.

            • Billy Malone

              Honesty is the road to starvation. You can’t beat a cheater that gets away with it.

            • I have a top price i’m going to pay and then put that bid in with 5 seconds to go, if i lose, i lose or if i win i win.

            • Goethe Behr

              Sam: Yeah. When I was buying, that’s what I did. And the good thing is that you can put in $100 and win it for $20, if that’s where the bid is. But if they watch you and figure that out, they can guess your top bid and put in their own bid. Jacking up a price is well worth losing a sale once in awhile.

            • Billy Malone

              Better yet what if you work at E bay or hack into the computer system and know the top bit. I wouldn’t trust even JC if he were running things.

            • With all the back-ups and guarantees E-bay now has, and if you pay with PayPal, you may still get stung but you eventually will get your money back. Doesn’t hurt to really look at the seller and get a feel for who they really are.

  • Surfisher

    Ron Paul, freed of the encumbrance of running for office, IS NOW DEVOTING HIS TIME to Educate the People (and especially the young generation that will be our Future in a few years) that the Rights of the Individual, the US Citizen, are NEVER to be transgressed upon by any Unconstitutional “Laws, Rules and Regulations” that may be enacted by ANYONE in Office!

    That Wars the White House starts without Congressional approval are not only Unconstitutional, but have bankrupted us! That our Money is funny paper printed by a Private, Never Audited, organization called the Federal Reserve Board, that is NOT part of the US Treasury Department (the only LAWFUL AGENCY ALLOWED BY THE US CONSTITUTION TO ISSUE VALID US Dollars)!

    And the list of our Citizens sufferings goes on!
    ——————————————————————

    Ron Paul will now have a greater impact in saving America then ever before! Expect great things from this Greatest American in the months to follow — and in the next few years — expect that HIS Liberty Movement will Finally END the Tyranny that the Centralized Federal Government has tried to impose on We, the People!

    —————————————————————————————
    In this latest interview (11-30-2012), Ron Paul logically dissects the problems of our nation — and gives apodictic solutions to the Intentional Mess the Criminals that have taken Control of the US Government have plunged us into!

    Must watch 10 minutes video — spread it like Wildfire!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLtBWDLemUs&feature=plcp

  • Goethe Behr

    Back on topic (secession petition):

    I heard that someone started a petition to deport anyone who signs any petition. I thought that was pretty funny.

    • Billy Malone

      I’m sure they file away all those that signed for future ref.

      • Goethe Behr

        Billy: The irony of it is that these people are saying THEY should also be deported for signing a petition. Good sense of humor, I would say.

        • Billy Malone

          Well if they get what they want they can be deported and not have to move.

          • What if a lot of those who are signing succession lists are illegal aliens and fundamental Muslims?

            • Goethe Behr

              Sam: That’s what makes the petitions so ridiculous. They’re not legal in any way and have no official meaning at all. People are signing as if it is supposed to make a difference, and what’s to keep someone from signing fifty times?

            • Your correct Goethe – it was a simple way to directly tell the POTUS you and x amount of others are displeased with the government. But he or the “Gov” don’t really gives a “rat’s @#$”; he will do whatever he wants whenever he wants, “has more leeway”, and dances to his own jingle.

            • Goethe Behr

              Sam: It still sounds like neither of you get the humor of the anti-petition petition that gets people to sign up to penalize themselves for signing the petition. So frustrating.

            • Billy Malone

              Bingo, that’s the American voter.

            • Not sure which petition you’re talking about – i only know about the general secession one. Isn’t it strange how everyone took Occupy Wall Street so seriously but most of you just laugh at the secession campaign? Obviously the US and Obama is exactly where you want them to be.

            • Goethe Behr

              Sam:

              OK, let’s try this again, more slowly. (Jesus.)

              OK. . .the title of this thread is “secession petitions.” So it started out talking about the petitions and the various legal ramifications.

              The idea of the petitions is that people who have no idea how the government works signed petitions to demand that their state leave the Union, as if an online petition would have any effect at all.

              MEANWHILE, a humorist started a SEPARATE petition ridiculing the original petitions. The SEPARATE petition asked the government to deport anyone who signed any petition–which, of course, would include the petition they were asking people to sign. Tens of thousands of people got the joke, and signed the petition, which, if it could take effect, would deport the people who signed the petition they signed.

              This is still not getting through, is it?

            • Ok Goethe – you got thru, i was unaware of the idiot 2nd petition. So the whole thing becomes a joke. And further to what i said earlier, if it’s against the administration, it’s turned into an unimportant joke. If it’s against establishment and capitalism or military protection. You become the Bully because it doesn’t fit your ideology.

            • Goethe Behr

              Sam: It was a joke to begin with.

              The White House tried to solicit direct communication from the public, but of course, it would take a huge, expensive bureaucracy to read every comment and respond, so they said they would respond to any petition that gathered a lot of signatures.

              So the first joke was the dumb people who started the petition to ask PERMISSION to secede. I mean, how dumb is that? If they were serious, they would have moved to amend their OWN constitution. It’s a state identity matter.

              Reminds me of the time when I was a kid and told my mother I was gonna run away from home. She cleverly suggested that I wait until my dad got home, so he could get me a suitcase. By the time he got home, I was over it.

              Obviously, if I had been serious, I would have just taken off. Likewise, these people who want their state to run away from home were fricken certifiably goofy to ask permission.

              It was laughable before the humorist got involved.

              As for the second part of your comment, you’re trying to say that ONE person complaining about the U.S. acting as a bully makes that ONE person a bully? Excellent 1984. Does away with pesky protest automatically.

            • Billy Malone

              They ain’t skipping out without paying the piper for what they owe. Gee, even Wyoming with its 700K people would have to come up with $35 billion. They might even own more than that to out of state banks.

            • Billy Malone

              So long as they pay their share of the national debt before the pull out, no problem. I think it’s a bout $52 K per man, woman, and child. The banks may want them to settle up on anything the might owe also.

    • Billy Malone

      Tickets are no good on the federal prison railroad cars. It’s by invitation only.

  • Goethe Behr

    I think it’s hilarious that Macy’s uses the Soviet Red Star as its logo. . .