Santorum wins Alabama and Mississippi, Romney takes Hawaii

Rick Santorum came up with big wins Tuesday night in Mississippi and Alabama. Newt Gingrich barely took second place in each of those contests but Mitt Romney managed a victory in Hawaii and American Samoa also on Tuesday. Due to Mississippi and Alabama dividing delegates under a proportional system, Santorum won’t claim them all but he can take the first place vote total.

Results for Alabama Republican Primary (U.S. Presidential Primary)
Mar 13, 2012 (98% of precincts reporting)
Rick Santorum 212,343 34.5%
Newt Gingrich 179,919 29.3%
Mitt Romney 178,601 29%
Ron Paul 30,494 5%
Other 13,583 2.2%
Results for Mississippi Republican Primary (U.S. Presidential Primary)
Mar 13, 2012 (99% of precincts reporting)
Rick Santorum 93,182 32.9%
Newt Gingrich 88,676 31.3%
Mitt Romney 85,922 30.3%
Ron Paul 12,498 4.4%
Other 3,037 1.1%
Results for Hawaii Republican Caucus (U.S. Presidential Primary)
Mar 13, 2012 (100% of precincts reporting)
Mitt Romney 4,250 45.4%
Rick Santorum 2,369 25.3%
Ron Paul 1,712 18.3%
Newt Gingrich 1,034 11%
Other 0 0%

Report from Fox News:

Rick Santorum ensured that the Republican nominating battle will drag on, possibly into the spring and beyond, after pulling off a pair of victories in the Deep South on Tuesday — as the presidential primary race passes the midway mark.

The former Pennsylvania senator edged out his opponents in both Mississippi and Alabama, allowing him to build the case that he is the “conservative” alternative to Mitt Romney over Newt Gingrich.

But even with two surprise wins, Santorum didn’t walk away with a surge in delegates. As of Wednesday morning, Romney had 495 delegates to Santorum’s 252. That’s up from 454 and 217 before Tuesday’s votes. Gingrich now stands with 131 delegates and Ron Paul with 48.

Romney did not go home empty handed because the states divide their delegates proportionally and he clinched a victory in the Hawaii caucuses by a wide margin. He took home 45 percent of the vote 52 percent of that state’s delegates while Santorum trailed with 25 percent of the vote and 23 percent of the delegates.

Romney also won the small Republican caucus in American Samoa. He picked up all nine delegates in the contest in the U.S. territory located 2,300 miles south of Hawaii.

With no multi-state primary nights on tap until April 3 — when D.C., Maryland and Wisconsin vote — for the rest of the month the candidates will be competing for delegates one state or territory at a time in Missouri, Puerto Rico, Illinois and Louisiana.

Certainly Santorum taking the “Southern” Super Tuesday primary will embolden his campaign and lend some credibility to his argument in continuing the race. Gingrich didn’t outright win but he did finish ahead of Romney in both contests which also gives him a leg, albeit wobbly, to stand on. Ron Paul will gain at least 1 delegate from the Hawaii caucus.

  • http://www.indigenecommunity.info Douglas Ou-ee-ii-jay-ii Jack

    ‘Democracy’ from the Greek means ‘power of the people’. When citizens vote, what authority to they understand they are delegating to choose candidates for president or as representatives in Congress? Are citizens authorizing ‘murder’ on their behalf? in pre-emptive war? for oil? to taint our food supply with Genetically Modified Organisms? to poison rivers, lakes, atmosphere and soils for millions of years with Complex Synthetic Poisons & Radio-active isotopes? to excuse corporations from taxation? to buy politicians and their friends multiple homes and cottages? to send politicians and their friends on vacations and trips worldwide?
    Because a voter prefers 40% of a candidates policies and chooses this candidate as the best option among other bad choices, does this mean the candidate chosen is a ‘representative’?

    Indigenous peoples of the world, understood that Political Democracy has a whole list of mathematical misrepresentations and therefore based their government on ‘Economic Democracy’ based in ‘community’ (Latin ‘com’ = ‘together’ + ‘munus’ = ‘gift or service’). Over the course of a lifetime each apprentice in specialized Production Societies or Guilds contributed their labour & knowledge, which was accounted for as more and more shares. With each citizen owning shares in their fields of expertise (professions, trades, studies etc) and ‘caucused’ (Iroquois = ‘grouped together in like-interests’), they gained power and authority to act within their fields of expertise in relationship with many other specialists who are delegated the same authority.

    Elders mentor youth in learning trades. Youth provide elders and the Production Society fresh ideas, energy and mobility. With ‘economy’ (Greek ‘oikos’ = ‘home’) centred in the multihome dwellings of indigenous people worldwide (Longhouse are apartment-like and Pueblo are townhouse-like) recognized and accounted for the Caring Professions. Women, elders and others centred in care and nurture professions were grouped together in specialized Production Societies where they could collaborate and receive recognition, accounting and empowerment in the economic and political cycle. This natural flow of learning and profession enabled families to pass down natural learning from elder to youth, yet without rigidity, youth were free according to the dictates of their Vision-Quest to choose the profession of their choice. Some families and multihome dwellings were as well centers of excellence within specialized trades sometimes with knowledge passed down over tens of generations so that family clans were associated with certain specialties.

    Indigenous People structured Political Democracy as a complementary subset in Multi-home, Village, regional, National and Confederate Councils to include representatives of the Production Societies and Clans. These ownership societies were based in a pride of being able to ‘welcome’ fellow humans in inclusive economies made possible through time-based human resource economic accounting integrating all community values. Inclusive ownership in relationships for the essential means of production in the Production Societies is quite different from modern ‘exclusive’ property ownership for things and land. Those interested in learning more about humanity’s original ‘indigenous’ (Latin = ‘self-generating’) heritage and the sovereign power of First Nations here please visit: https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/relational-economy/8-economic-democracy

    • Augie

      Minor historical note:
      The United States of America was not founded as a democracy. It only extends democratic government to the local level. The nation itself and the majority of the states are republics – which has a very different meaning, structure and history. When we idealize our national democracy we are in fact setting ourselves up for disappointment.
      We elect people to govern us. to vote for us. to mentor for us. etc.
      Thus far that form of government has shown itself to be somewhat totalitarian and we are only one bill away from making the president an emperor. Fortunately at this point in time our senators and congressmen are not killing each other. yet.

      • Billy Malone

        Yeah and if they don’t do what the voters want they get booted out. Thus far we have had to boot only a handful as they give us exactly what we want.

        PORK, PORK, WE WANT PORK.

        16 trillion dollars worth of it thus far and still counting.

        Yeah the boys we elect have been real good to us thus far and they tell us the best is yet to come.

  • Meeman

    Once again, the Main Stream Media, MSM, proclaim to the world that Romney WON yet another contest, when in fact, Ron Paul WON hands down. Only difference this time is that the people of the Virgin Islands had the decency to correct the MSM error/fraudulent result and tell the world about it.

    Shame the other State areas haven’t been so honest.

    For those that haven’t actually been taking notice of what’s been going on with this GOP ‘election’, let me say it in plain simple English…

    VOTE FRAUD 2012 AGAINST RON PAUL’S MASSIVE WIN YET AGAIN!!!

    VOTE FRAUD 2012 AGAINST RON PAUL’S MASSIVE WIN YET AGAIN!!!

    VOTE FRAUD 2012 AGAINST RON PAUL’S MASSIVE WIN YET AGAIN!!!

    VOTE FRAUD 2012 AGAINST RON PAUL’S MASSIVE WIN YET AGAIN!!!

    VOTE FRAUD 2012 AGAINST RON PAUL’S MASSIVE WIN YET AGAIN!!!

    Oh yes, just in case you think that the MSM wouldn’t lie to you or hide any important information from you, you should also know that about a week ago, legal Proceedings began for The Impeachment of OBAMA! Strange how that little footnote in history has not been spread on every front page and News broadcast around the world, isn’t it. Capitulation, anyone?

    MSM = deception, manipulation and control of your thoughts.

    ipso facto

    Don’t you worry though, as with the PAT ACT I&II, CIA, FBI, DEA, SWAT, TSA, NDAA, FEMA, DHS, etc. etc., I’m sure your government will take good care of you! Unless, they want you out of the way and claim you’re the terrorist they’ve been warning you about. Then off you go! You can thank Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Bilderberg, Goldman Sachs, J.P. Morgan, Rockafella and of course, Obama, for that.

    “We’re Not here because we’re Free. We’re here because We’re Not Free!”

    - The Matrix

    Sleep tight America, while your Freedoms, Rights and Liberties are stolen from you day by day! If only you had a Constitution to live by…

  • Goethe Behr

    Romney practically tied for first in two southern states. Turn off the lights, Ethyl.

    • Billy Malone

      I agree with you there for sure. Not what one would call a commanding lead.

  • Jennifer Hall

    Isn’t it amazing how Ron Paul has undoubtedly the BIGGEST following/support (take a look at all of his turn outs for his speeches, compared to Romney and the others). Yet, some how he almost always comes in last? I have been smelling fish since Iowa!! He came in 2nd, and since then he has magically dropped to last in most cases, sometimes even “undecided” has had more than him. When Romney stated that there is nothing wrong or shameful with being successful and wealthy, he was right, but it’s what you do and do not do with it that is shameful! Unfortunately EVERYONE (especially people of our government) have a price! And these wealthy politicians know it! I am not pin pointing Romney in specific for this, but ALL politicians and members of our government, I have NO DOUBT in my my mind that fraud is at hand for 2012 and it cost someone a pretty penny and promises of deceit to our people in return for this to be done! Ron Paul is a good man and an honest man that deserves everything he has worked hard for this election!

    yours truly,
    Concerned Citizin

    • Billy Malone

      an honest man = political demise

    • Meeman

      “It’s not the votes that count, it’s who counts the votes that matter.”
      - Josef Stalin

      ALL of Ron Paul’s victorious WINS, State after State, have been denied him by Romney’s ‘vote counters’, even to the extent that they will actually close down voting stations in some cases, in others they just send false numbers ahead before the voting has even started! Add that to ‘missing’ votes from declared ‘official’ website vote displays and rigged voting machines, that only Ron Paul supporters are being MADE to use, even though other people in the same place are using paper ballots, and all you’ve got left is blatant Vote Fraud.

      Only difference is, this time, there’s the prolific use of the internet to alert the People of this scam, each and every time it happens. The MSM/Governmental Propaganda Machine, don’t own nor control this freedom… yet.

      1984 was supposed to be a WARNING, NOT a Manual!!!

      • Surfisher

        Meeman — “1984 was supposed to be a WARNING, NOT a Manual!!!”

        Good one!

        • Meeman

          Thank you. If I may…

          1984 stood for complete control and aggressive oppression of any semblance of freewill with it’s mandates being…

          - Big Brother spying on you(CCTV Cameras/Internet surveillance/RFID)
          - Thought Control(MSM/’authorised’ books/Government Propaganda)
          - Thought Police(Internet surveillance/Religious Dogma/Propaganda)
          - Food? Rationing(controlling prices/interest rates/toxic content/GMO)
          - Perpetual War!(profits for banksters/tyranny & suppression of own people)
          - Governmental Media Propaganda(see above)

          I may be missing out some points but you get the idea.

          Please note that the KINDLE electronic book system had prohibited the buying/viewing of the 1984 book from all of it’s system. Coincidence?

          1984 was written in 1948. The author merely swapped the last two digits to give a futuristic/non-relevant feel. Not so irrelevant now, is it?

          Tomorrow… “We are at War with Oceana.” or would that be Iran now?

          I repeat, 1984 was supposed to be a Warning NOT a Manual!

          • Surfisher

            Meeman — excellent post!

            You only missed the most Salient Point in 1984 — Newspeak — the daily/weekly changing of the meaning of words (the precursor to a totalitarian government, which decides which CURRENT words are allowed for the people to use)!

            We have neared this point — with Political Correctness!

            • Billy Malone

              Yeah, and that TV add that tells me it’s not okay to call someone what I think they should be called. Who makes the choice? Me or the government.

          • Surfisher

            Billy Malone —

            Not you of course…!

            • Billy Malone

              And the hell of it is most of the things I can’t call people are the things the U S Government called them as immigrants when they first arrived.

  • Chris

    Where are the vote totals for the American Samoa? Why is no one reporting them? Is it because Ron Paul won the popular vote just as he did in the Virgin Islands? I guess we only care about delegate counts when it suites our candidates. Oh well, that’s biased reporting for you.

    • Billy Malone

      Yep

  • Sall

    Who will be VP of these both idiots, it is very important. Certainly that Paul is the best, he should be president or at least VP.
    he has really brainless nation and it is problem. But usa will be punished for bad choice. It will be never possibility to have normal president in usa if this R. Paul loose now.

    • Billy Malone

      RP has painted himself into a corner in a way there. He has stated he could support a candidate if said candidate shares some of his views. Doesn’t look like any of the big three even come close.

  • Carmen

    It is amazing that at first media was saying that if Romney showed good in Alb and Miss that would be good because they expected him to loose. Then, when he did well, media was all over the place saying he was weak because he did not win. Yet, he was way up there with these so called conservatives, where he was not expected to do well, much less win. The media, Fox and CNN, say the candidates are “brusing” Romney, but they do the same thing. All about how he just barely won Ohio, where he was not suppose to do well, and nothing on how he won Mass by 72%. All about how Gingrich won Georgia, not that he only won by 48%. And ,wasn’t Gingrish born in Albama? Romney cannot win! Yet, he still gets the votes! And, I am tired of hearing Gingrich, and esp. Santorum, going on and on about how much money Romney has spent. What a bunch of babies. If either one of them would win, is he going to whine when President Obama out spends him 20 to 1?

    • Billy Malone

      The news media is like everything else in America, it’s all about money and Romney spends big bucks on adds. Hey that’s the way it should be.

      • Surfisher

        Billy Malone — off topic. Did you see the below headline?

        “In ‘highly unusual’ move, Marines asked to disarm before Leon Panetta speech”

        Wonder what spin they’ll give that one…LOL.

        • Billy Malone

          He said he had given the order because the two dozen Afghan soldiers also there were unarmed and he did not want to treat them differently.

          Back when Saddam in Iraq gave his speeches there were guns all over the place. Same for these “dictators” who ride through their country driving their own cars with windows open.
          Something ain’t right.

          • Surfisher

            Billy Malone —

            Not sure, but can a Marine (unless placed under arrest) be dismembered in hostile territory, even by the Four ‘Starest’ of Generals…?

            (Some can put a spin that Panetta is so liked by the troops, that he does not trust his own soldiers with weapons in his presence….).

            • Billy Malone

              Not real sure but I remember:

              The Massacre at Wounded Knee when asked to disarm.

        • Augie

          The command to disarm IS very rare but not unlawful. It is necessary for surrender (as per @Billy Malone) so that soldiers don’t keep fighting when the surrender is offered. Can only be given by commander of unit surrendering. ie I cannot surrender a unit not under my command.
          A limited command to disarm has been given since World War II for entertainment purposes. rifles are mustered in a common area and guarded by a soldier from each unit so that the troops are free to applaud.
          Maybe this was an attempt to entertain by surrendering. ;-)

          • Billy Malone

            I’ll bet the guy that gave the order wished he hadn’t

  • Double B

    When is Newt going to drop out? All he’s doing is giveing the nomination to Mitt on a silver platter, and there by handing the general to Barrack. It’s shameful. I like Newt, but we need to win in Novemember, and moderates don’t win elections. Every time we nominate a moderate we lose! At this piont it doesn’t matter if you liked Herman, Michele, Rick P, or Newt. Rick S is the only one who can catch Mitt at this stage of the race, so we need to get behind him.

    • Billy Malone

      When is Newt going to drop out? All he’s doing is giving the nomination to Mitt on a silver platter, and there by handing the general to Barrack. It’s shameful.

      Oh maybe not if Newt is on the take and being paid to stay in. Might be collecting on both ends. A check from Mitt & a check from Obama.

      Not a question of would he, the question is, is he??????

      • ok

        Handing the general to Barrack? Do you honestly think Santorum has a better chance vs Obama?

        • Billy Malone

          NO

          • Surfisher

            Billy Malone —

            Goethe Behr posted one of the funnier observations here:
            Santorum = escapee from Sanatorium….

          • ok

            Then why do you want to see Mitt lose so badly? I am assuming now you are a Ron Paul supporter but surely you realize that Newt dropping out would not help Ron Paul at all.

            • Billy Malone

              Someone has to pull away from the pack or Obama is a shoo in.

        • Surfisher

          ok —

          “Then why do you want to see Mitt lose so badly? I am assuming now you are a Ron Paul supporter but surely you realize that Newt dropping out would not help Ron Paul at all.”

          As a Ron Paul supporter, I want Newt and Rick to stay till the very end!

          You should be able to figure out why.

  • IwasThere

    Ron Paul has loyal follower for sure… Reality no voter fraud is going on here. I participated in a GOP caucus this year, it was public and fair I was there. Ron Paul makes perfect sence with 50% of what he speaks, the other 50% he is as a I heard one person speak “batsh!t crazy”. And that folks is why he consistantly comes in last almost always.

    • Billy Malone

      . Reality no voter fraud is going on here.

      Saw David Copperfield in Veges not long ago, pure magic no illusion there either.

  • Surfisher

    LOL — correction on headline:

    “In ‘highly unusual’ move, Marines asked to disarm before Leon Panetta speech”

    Wonder what spin they’ll give that one…LOL.

    Not sure, but can a Marine (unless placed under arrest) be disarmed in hostile territory, even by the Four ‘Starest’ of Generals…?

    (Some can put a spin that Panetta is so liked by the troops, that he does not trust his own soldiers with weapons in his presence….).

    • Trollzcar

      “Not sure, but can a Marine (unless placed under arrest) be disarmed in hostile territory, even by the Four ‘Starest’ of Generals…?”

      Not trying to be rude, but This is a really dumb comment.
      Of coarse they can.
      The ideal that a Marine would never relinquish there weapon even when a superiors officer. (Or NCO) Told them to. Is just shear Hollywood crap.
      You do what you are told as a Marine.

      Also on a note, the ideal of not having your weapons in front of staff officers, Really is not that strange ether. Its actually pretty standard practice.

      • Billy Malone

        Think Patton would have given said order.

    • Surfisher

      Still curious if someone knows the answers:

      1) Was it ILLEGAL — a breach of military law/conduct/rules — to DISARM the US Marines in a HOSTILE combat territory (in order to be herded without arms to listen to a speech from Citizen Panetta)?

      2) Name and rank (or civilian status) of person RESPONSIBLE for disarming the US Marines?

      • Billy Malone

        If it isn’t it should be. Just read the history book and see what happened to those that did obey Gee just think what would happen if the enemy got hold of a high ranking officer’s uniform.

        • Surfisher

          US Marines DISARMED before meeting Panetta!
          ——————————————–

          By TIM MAK | 3/14/12 11:00 AM EDT

          http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/74004.html

          Article (condensed):

          “Hundreds of U.S. Marines were suddenly told Wednesday to leave and return unarmed to a venue where Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta was scheduled to speak….”
          “….about 200 Marines were told to take their weapons outside of the large tent at Camp Leatherneck where Panetta spoke and to leave them there, while Afghan troops already were unarmed, as is customary for these events, reports The Associated Press.”

          The commander on the scene, Sgt. Maj. Brandon Hall, said he was acting on orders from highers-up…. “All I know is, I was told to get the weapons out,” he told The New York Times. “Somebody got itchy, that’s all I’ve got to say….”

          American officials later said that the order came from the top commander in Helmand province, Maj. Gen. Mark Gurganus.

          “You’ve got one of the most important people (Panetta) in the world in the room,” he told the newspaper — the order….“Is not a big deal,” Gurganus added.”
          ———————————————–

          “U.S. officials told Marines to leave a tent and disarm themselves before re-entering for a meeting with Defense Secretary Leon Panetta. NBC’s Atia Abawi and Jim Miklaszewski report.

          According to one official the decision was “stupid.”

          Miklaszewski also told NBC’s Chuck Todd Wednesday that the move was “highly unusual” and that Marines in combat zones are always supposed to have weapons within their reach.”

          Military officials in Washington told NBC News’ chief Pentagon correspondent Jim Miklaszewski that the decision to disarm the Marines was indeed significant.

          “It sends the wrong message” that Marines can’t be trusted in the presence of the secretary of defense,” one told him.
          ——————————————————

          Here is a comment on this situation from an expert:

          “U.S. Marines never disarm in a combat zone, never, not for any reason or event.”

          If true — than these two questions arise:

          A) Are the Marines that disarmed themselves going to face Court-martial?

          ALSO………

          B) Is the ORIGINATOR, that compelled the Marines to DISARM, be prosecuted to the full extent of military law?
          ——————————————————-

          Still awaiting the ACTUAL NAME of the person issuing the ‘Marines Disarm Order’ — was it Maj. Gen. Mark Gurganus, if not, who (actual Name and Position in the US Government) was responsible for this travesty?!

          GIVE US A NAME — and we’ll go from there….

          • Billy Malone

            Safe bet it came from a higher pay grade than Maj. Gen. Mark Gurganus,

            Good question though, was it a lawful order??? I expect some guy at the bottom will lose his one and only stripe over this.

        • Trollstar

          Well a few points me be made hear.

          #1: Just because the majority of the marines wear disarmed, did not mean that there wear no armed guards or security.

          #2: Get Ahold of? I can order everything you would need for a ‘disguise’ online.
          Just because they had the disguise doesn’t mean they can walk right in.
          If they wear checking the weapons of the Marines at the door, they would be checking the weapons of the ‘disguised enemy’ as well.

          • Billy Malone

            I didn’t hear anything about scanners or pat downs ??????

      • Augie

        The command to disarm IS very rare but not unlawful. It is necessary for surrender so that soldiers don’t keep fighting when the surrender is offered. Can only be given by commander of unit surrendering. ie I cannot surrender a unit not under my command.
        Therefore just find the name of the commander of the unit. He gave the command. Only he could.
        A limited command to disarm has been given since World War II for entertainment purposes. rifles are mustered in a common area and guarded by a soldier from each unit so that the troops are free to applaud.
        ;-) Maybe this was an attempt to entertain by surrendering.
        ps: giving this command when it could reasonably place soldiers in peril is a court-martial offense so more info is necessary to decide if the commander could be in trouble for this.
        pps: Army, Marine and Airforce personnel would never disobey a lawful order unless they believed the superior officer was compromised. Navy would obey lawful order unless they believed the commander was not aware of imminent danger to the unit or a shipmate.

  • Trollzcar

    Ya I don’t really know how people are saying this is a knock out for Rick. I pretty much guessed that this was the outcome, and its not like he got sweeps in these two states. They wear all pretty close.

    On a note.

    I love Ron Paul. But he does not need to be president. And sorry to break it to you, wile there may be some obstruction, “VOTE FRAUD 2012 AGAINST RON PAUL’S MASSIVE WIN YET AGAIN!!!” Right… Sure.. That would mean that the “Massive” Following the Ron has, didn’t notice the “Massive coverup” Some one want to explain how that’s possible? It’s not. Get over it.

    As for the Impeachment of Obama.
    First: Impeachment is the process to start hearings about getting hid of some one, Clinton WAS impeached. They didn’t get rid of him.
    Second: There is currently a bill in congress to start the impeachment process. Good luck getting enough support to actually go into the process.
    Three: To Impeach some one, they must have broken a major law. The ideal behind this impeachment is ‘the use of the military without congressional approved’

    In case you had not payed attention, plenty of President have done that in very limited ways. (Much less limited then Libya) And as It legally stands, the supreme court has stated time and again that if the matter of congressional approval is ever brought to the court, they will most likely shot it down.

    The Ideal of impeaching Obama is so popular because the Republican party is worried they can’t beat him in a election.

    At this point.
    I don’t think Mitt or Santourum have a chance of winning vs Obama. (Its not impossible) And I think that Dr.Paul and Newt have slightly less of a chance. So at this point I would suggest voting for who you agree with, not who you think is gonna win. So for the most part I’m going to vote for Dr.Paul. I know he’s not going to win, but I don’t really expect Mitt, Newt or Rick to win anyways.

    http://www.wnd.com/2012/03/obama-impeachment-bill-now-in-congress/

    • Billy Malone

      I love Ron Paul. But he does not need to be president.

      What this country needs is more of the same……….hu ra.

    • Augie

      Well said @Trollzcar,
      Too many people get caught up with forcing BO out by means other than the general election. The most he could get out the impeachment process is censure which is basically saying congress is not pleased.
      The requirements for actually taking the man out of office are incredibly hard.
      I am also voting for the person I think best represents my views.
      But I am not convinced that BO cannot be beaten. I do happen to believe that none of the candidates out to do so are running their campaigns so as to do so. I am tired of the crybaby approach to lost votes, the conspiracy defense, the urube proofs and the fuzzy math.
      I don’t care who’s leading now. I care who’s plan to fix the problems of the nation best fits my idea of how to do it. And I care if I believe the candidate will do as he says once elected or act according to the needs of the nation.
      As the old joke says, “How do you know a polititian is lying?…”

      • Billy Malone

        I care who’s plan to fix the problems of the nation best fits my idea of how to do it.

        Thus it’s more of the same or Ron Paul. Do you know a better way to cut spending than to eliminate overhead? Know a better way to create jobs than to bring 300,000 + salaried employees that are spending billions overseas, home here to America so they can spend the money here and create 3 jobs for every one that spends his pay check here. If so bring it on.

        • Surfisher

          Billy Malone —

          I’ll drink to that!

          • Billy Malone

            I’ll buy

    • Meeman

      Ron Paul’s supporters HAVE noticed the massive cover up, and so have the media that aren’t paid to aid in it, and both, including Dr. Paul himself, have mentioned it quite a bit, but as with the Military March to the White House, in support of Dr. Paul, the rest of the MSM won’t show it.

      As far as wondering who has more or less of a chance to beat Obomber in a debate, is concerned… I thought I had made myself clear… your ‘vote’ doesn’t count as it’s not counted! The ‘results’ have already been decided before hand. It’s merely through the honesty and failed corruption of one or two areas that have caught the MSM and Romney’s ‘vote counters’ on the back heel, with genuine results being announced. Otherwise, all you’re doing is going through the motions of taking part in the illusion that you have a choice and have a vote.

      Sorry, but there you have it.

      The People vote for Ron Paul

      Romney’s people ‘count’ the votes and ‘decide’ the result; beforehand.

      Who’ll be best to encounter Obomber? Best ask Obomber’s sponsors. They’ve already chosen the one they can’t beat and have done their best to hide him, his supporters, his popularity and his message, from as many people as possible.

      And if it’s a crime against Obomber you want, in relation to his impeachment, then read the impeachment paper and notice the list of war crimes. Granted, they’re not as extensive as those of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld et al but crimes they still are.

      Forget about the election deception and concentrate on Dr. Paul’s message… the Liberty to live your life in a free society. It’ll come up in your life from time to time, I’m sure. Hopefully before you’re heading towards your all-expenses paid, fully air-conditioned, no-holds-barred DHS NDAA FEMA Camp, if you ever dare say or write anything negative about your illustrious dictator Obomber or any of his bankster overlords. LOL

      Don’t forget to pay your taxes! Someone has to pay for this stuff. Tyranny and oppression isn’t free, you know.

      Oops, taxes? The 16th Amendment was never ratified as not enough people signed it. In the IRS’s own tax code book, Income Tax is written down as a ‘voluntary donation’! Technically speaking, the one’s committing tax fraud are you and the IRS if you pay them Income Tax and they capitulate by accepting it. You’re actually supposed to fill in your 1040 form with all zeros. Just FYI.

      Anyway…

      • Billy Malone

        I think it’s the same in most U S courts of law. Judges on all levels (legal and political) are all on the take in one form or another.

      • Surfisher

        Meeman —

        Excellent post!

  • Doug

    I think its time for Newt to bow out and support Rick. If you even give half of Newts support to Rick he will win most of the conservative states and be very competative in the liberal states. Once Romney is out of the North East he seems to falter in support. Whos going to win the last of the big 10, Calif, Texas, Ill, NY, NJ and PA?

    • Billy Malone

      Like the voters really went for him in a big way in his home state. I think the tar pot is still warm.

  • http://www.indigenecommunity.info Douglas Jack

    In an active sense Ron Paul is activating hundreds of thousands of people in this process, with significant monitoring of the ‘rigged’ election by a well coordinated ‘army’ unseen of in American history. In a broader sense RP is activating tens of millions of people (16 % of Republicans) on all sides who are considering his message seriously. It is key that RP’s participatory process go beyond the superficial nature of elections and become ‘economic’ in order to animate resources and popular transformation from the ‘tree-roots’. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/relational-economy

    Obama continues to reveal himself as an assassin, war-monger (Libya) and ‘boot-licker’ to financial and Military-Industrial-Media Establishment MIME complex puppet. The same proportions of Democrats, Greens etc. are being animated by RP’s message through his clear message and massive media coverage (despite themselves). We may not agree with everything RP says because he is obviously reaching for ‘re-love-utionary’ change. Ron Paul is beginning to grasp and describe a step-by-step process for working within present government, institutions and business towards transformation. RP still isn’t there yet, coming still from an immature right wing desire to close down the government on day two but at least he understands that he is speaking allegorically. Dennis Kucinich as VP, Ralph Nader for the Greens and other activists can help RP find a tangible program of transformation as well as animate the left Democrat for whom someone with a clear track record is required.

    Considering that it is unlikely that MIME complex parties will collaborate with RP on his program, it becomes more and more likely that a right-left peace, prosperity & justice (election transparency) coalition will form. With Republican cor-po-rupt money on the right and Obama’s cor-po-rupt money on the left, the amount of time left in which Ron Paul’s message is getting out to the whole population through mainstream media, then the numbers are looking more and more interesting for an RP win ‘up-the-middle’ in the general election in November.

    • Surfisher

      Douglas Jack —

      Consider this article (based on Norman Podhoretz’s
      Wall Street Journal piece):

      “Years from now, historians may regard the 2008 election of Barack Obama as an inscrutable and disturbing phenomenon, a baffling breed of mass hysteria akin perhaps to the witch craze of the Middle Ages. How, they will wonder, did a man so devoid of professional accomplishment beguile so many into thinking he could manage the world’s largest economy, direct the world’s
      most powerful military, execute the world’s most consequential job?

      Imagine a future historian examining Obama’s pre-presidential life: ushered into and through the Ivy League despite unremarkable grades and test scores along the way; a cushy non-job as a “community organizer”; a brief career as a state legislator devoid of legislative achievement (and in fact nearly
      devoid of his attention, so often did he vote “present”); and finally an unaccomplished single term in the United States Senate, the entirety of which was devoted to his presidential ambitions. He left no academic legacy in academia, authored no signature legislation as a legislator.

      And then there is the matter of his troubling associations: the
      white-hating, America-loathing preacher who for decades served as Obama’s “spiritual mentor”; a real-life, actual terrorist who served as Obama’s colleague and political sponsor. It is easy to imagine a future historian looking at it all and asking: how on Earth was such a man elected president?

      Not content to wait for history, the incomparable Norman Podhoretz
      addressed the question recently in the Wall Street Journal:

      To be sure, no white candidate who had close associations with an outspoken hater of America like Jeremiah Wright and an unrepentant terrorist like Bill Ayers, would have lasted a single day. But because Mr. Obama was black, and therefore entitled in the eyes of liberaldom to have hung out with protesters against various American injustices, even if they were a bit extreme, he was given a pass.

      Let that sink in: Obama was given a pass — held to a lower standard — because of the color of his skin. Podhoretz continues:

      And in any case, what did such ancient history matter when he was also so articulate and elegant and (as he himself had said) “non-threatening,” all of which gave him a fighting chance to become the first black president and thereby to lay the curse of racism to rest?

      Podhoretz puts his finger, I think, on the animating pulse of the Obama phenomenon — affirmative action. Not in the legal sense, of course. But certainly in the motivating sentiment behind all affirmative action laws and regulations, which are designed primarily to make white people, and especially white liberals, feel good about themselves.

      Unfortunately, minorities often suffer so that whites can pat themselves on the back. Liberals routinely admit minorities to schools for which they are not qualified, yet take no responsibility for the inevitable poor performance and high drop-out rates which follow. Liberals don’t care if these minority students fail; liberals aren’t around to witness the
      emotional devastation and deflated self esteem resulting from the racist policy that is affirmative action. Yes, racist.

      Holding someone to a separate standard merely because of the color of his skin — that’s affirmative action in a nutshell, and if that isn’t racism, then nothing is. And that is what America did to Obama.

      True, Obama himself was never troubled by his lack of achievements, but why would he be? As many have noted, Obama was told he was good enough for Columbia despite undistinguished grades at Occidental; he was told he was good enough for the US Senate despite a mediocre record in Illinois ; he was told he was good enough to be president despite no record at all in the
      Senate. All his life, every step of the way, Obama was told he was good enough for the next step, in spite of ample evidence to the contrary. What could this breed if not the sort of empty narcissism on display every time Obama speaks?

      In 2008, many who agreed that he lacked executive qualifications
      nonetheless raved about Obama’s oratory skills, intellect, and cool character. Those people — conservatives included — ought now to be deeply embarrassed. The man thinks and speaks in the hoariest of clichés, and that’s when he has his teleprompter in front of him; when the prompter is absent he can barely think or speak at all. Not one original idea has ever issued from his mouth — it’s all warmed-over Marxism of the kind that has failed over and over again for 100 years.

      And what about his character? Obama is constantly blaming anything and everything else for his troubles. Bush did it; it was bad luck; I inherited this mess. It is embarrassing to see a president so willing to advertise his own powerlessness, so comfortable with his own incompetence. But really, what were we to expect? The man has never been responsible for anything, so how do we expect him to act responsibly?

      In short: our president is a small and small-minded man, with neither the temperament nor the intellect to handle his job. When you understand that, and only when you understand that, will the current erosion of liberty and prosperity make sense. It could not have gone otherwise with such a man in the Oval Office.”

      • http://www.indigenecommunity.info Douglas Jack

        Surfisher, Because of the huge challenges before us as a human race, I expect Obama to live up to his Nobel Peace Prize, his oath of office & the US constitution, but only now can we clearly understand, he does not have the substance nor the clarity of mind. I can see that Ron Paul has some of this substance, but only some. Our Sustainable Development Corporation, Indigene Community works with indigenous heritage for sustainability. http://www.indigenecommunity.info Two technologies which we are developing are on-line web-based Human Resource Catalogues HRC with online accounting in a Community Investment & Exchange System CIES (described on our website) to enable local economies and concertation to develop for essential services. We also work with Both-Sides-Now, equal time recorded and published dialogues so that people like you and I can look at these issues point-by-point and step-by-step in order to create functional economic responses. douglasf.jack@gmail.com

        • Billy Malone

          I expect Obama to live up to his Nobel Peace Prize, his oath of office & the US constitution, but only now can we clearly understand, he does not have the substance nor the clarity of mind.

          ONLY NOW: What made anyone think he ever could.

    • Billy Malone

      I would think Greece had its Ron Paul and …………….

  • Surfisher

    Today’s Headline:

    “In ‘highly unusual’ move, Marines asked to DISARM before Leon Panetta speech!”

    Not sure, but can a Marine (unless placed under arrest) be disarmed in hostile territory, even by the Four ‘Starest’ of Generals…?

    (Some can put a spin that Panetta is so liked by the troops, that he does not trust his own soldiers with weapons in his presence….).
    ——————————————————————————————–

    Curious if someone knows the answers:

    1) Was it ILLEGAL — a breach of military law/conduct/rules — to DISARM the US Marines in a HOSTILE combat territory (in order to be herded without arms to listen to a speech from Citizen Panetta)?

    2) Name and rank (or civilian status) of person RESPONSIBLE for disarming the US Marines?

    ——————————

    Still waiting on experts’ response.

    • Augie

      For the benefit of others who have not seen the question in earlier posts:
      The command to disarm IS very rare but not unlawful. It is necessary for surrender so that soldiers don’t keep fighting when the surrender is offered. Can only be given by commander of unit surrendering. ie I cannot surrender a unit not under my command.
      Therefore just find the name of the commander of the unit. He gave the command. Only he could.
      A limited command to disarm has been given since World War II for entertainment purposes. rifles are mustered in a common area and guarded by a soldier from each unit so that the troops are free to applaud.
      If by expert you mean military lawyer then any officer in the US military qualifies.
      As to the question would any soldier, sailor, airman or marine obey said order. YES. Thank God. We were trained that way for our welfare and yours.

  • Surfisher

    US Marines DISARMED before meeting Panetta!
    ——————————————–

    By TIM MAK | 3/14/12 11:00 AM EDT

    http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0312/74004.html

    Article (condensed):

    “Hundreds of U.S. Marines were suddenly told Wednesday to leave and return unarmed to a venue where Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta was scheduled to speak….”
    “….about 200 Marines were told to take their weapons outside of the large tent at Camp Leatherneck where Panetta spoke and to leave them there, while Afghan troops already were unarmed, as is customary for these events, reports The Associated Press.”

    The commander on the scene, Sgt. Maj. Brandon Hall, said he was acting on orders from highers-up…. “All I know is, I was told to get the weapons out,” he told The New York Times. “Somebody got itchy, that’s all I’ve got to say….”

    American officials later said that the order came from the top commander in Helmand province, Maj. Gen. Mark Gurganus.

    “You’ve got one of the most important people (Panetta) in the world in the room,” he told the newspaper — the order….“Is not a big deal,” Gurganus added.”
    ———————————————–

    “U.S. officials told Marines to leave a tent and disarm themselves before re-entering for a meeting with Defense Secretary Leon Panetta. NBC’s Atia Abawi and Jim Miklaszewski report.

    According to one official the decision was “stupid.”

    Miklaszewski also told NBC’s Chuck Todd Wednesday that the move was “highly unusual” and that Marines in combat zones are always supposed to have weapons within their reach.”

    Military officials in Washington told NBC News’ chief Pentagon correspondent Jim Miklaszewski that the decision to disarm the Marines was indeed significant.

    “It sends the wrong message” that Marines can’t be trusted in the presence of the secretary of defense,” one told him.
    ——————————————————

    Here is a comment on this situation from an expert:

    “U.S. Marines never disarm in a combat zone, never, not for any reason or event.”

    If true — than these two questions arise:

    A) Are the Marines that disarmed themselves going to face Court-martial?

    ALSO………

    B) Is the ORIGINATOR, that compelled the Marines to DISARM, be prosecuted to the full extent of military law?
    ——————————————————-

    Still awaiting the ACTUAL NAME of the person issuing the ‘Marines Disarm Order’ — was it Maj. Gen. Mark Gurganus, if not, who (actual Name and Position in the US Government) was responsible for this travesty?!

    GIVE US A NAME — and we’ll go from there….

    • Billy Malone

      You’ve got one of the most important people (Panetta) in the world in the room,”

      Wimps don’t count.

  • Trollstar

    Sigh.
    OK again.

    Let me just make this completely clear.

    There is NOTHING in UCMJ that states that Marines Cant/Will not disarm in a combat zone.
    NOTHING AT ALL.

    “U.S. Marines never disarm in a combat zone, never, not for any reason or event.” – Is a bald face Hollywood Lie.
    You disarm when you are told to as a Marine or as a Soldier in the United States Army.

    So lets make that clear.
    There is not rule anywhere that states Marines don’t disarm. It’s just a little odd. Not even super odd, And there could have been a number of reasons, I would remind you that the Marines/Army have had some trouble with attacked from there own ranks.
    A marine threw a live grenade into his commanders tent back in 2005. (I think its was 2005)
    It could have been for diplomatic reasons. Really the reasons are endless as to why this order was given.

    • Billy Malone

      Really the reasons are endless as to why this order was given.

      We just want one good one…………………

    • Billy Malone

      Not even super odd, And there could have been a number of reasons,

      While on said subject, Which came first, the chicken or the egg?

  • Kent

    Here’s my prediction:

    Romney will win. It will seem close between him and Santorum, but he will win by a clear majority. He will win California, Oregon, the north east, and other states.

    Santorum will get Arkansas, Lousiana, other states, and have his hopes in Texas, but it won’t be enough.

    Gingrich & Paul will drop out in about a month, and Surfisher, the Ron Paul supporter on this webpage, will be in denial, saying that Ron Paul actually won the election and that America’s hopeless and blind, and will result in more spam on this page.

    Romney faces Obama, Romney wins.

    • antiromney

      i sadly agree with you beside the fact that ron paul will drop out he will never drop out because he isnt in to win anyway he is there to get his message across i believe gingrich will drop out within 2 weeks and surfisher will claim that ron paul actually won 90 percent of the vote but there was voter fraud i think they are all insane personally as for romney beating obama it wont happen he is basically the same and obama will know how to battle him on his healthcare and he will throw a billion dollars of attack ads at romney

      • Billy Malone

        voter fraud…….Is the Pope Catholic????

    • Billy Malone

      Good chance except for your last 5 words.

      There were no doubt posters like Surfisher in Greece. Try telling the voters there it was all spam. Nice to wake up and find your life savings in government bonds is now 1/2 of what it was the day before. Kind of like what they did with the GM bonds here. Like those millions of GM bond holders are ever going to buy a GM car again.

    • Trollztar

      Ya I pretty much agree with this.
      With the exception that I think Romney will just Barly get the 1141. (I am thinking 1159)

      • Billy Malone

        A lot of dollars yet to be spent then for the winner it’s payback time and the investors will reap the rewards at the cost to the taxpayers. Big winners for sure as they play both sides. Only losers are the voters for the most part.

    • DonWats

      My prediction:

      Romney will fulfill his role in satisfying the nation there was a choice. Santorum will likely be a/the puppet of 2016. Obama will remain.. Ron Pauls message will grow stronger and louder everyday. Many of us will seat RP in history along side our Founding Fathers, if even only in our own minds.

      God help us!

      • Billy Malone

        not bad, not bad at all

      • Augie

        If the Candidate does not step up and make political war and win then Romney WILL lose against Obama but this could also portend the end of the American Experiment. My own calculations are that if Obama is not defeated there is an 80% chance that a civil war will break out. Because of natural disasters easily predictable for those who follow nature and world oppinion developed in the recent “Arab Spring” the American Nation will not be able to bring the impressive arsinal to bear on the rebels and four nations will arise out of the chaos.
        Sadly, if this comes to pass, the most eminent doctor of medicine and statesman of great renown, Ron Paul will be completely forgotten and his followers mostly fade into the forest like the ancient forest people but with no knowledge of their root.
        So if you really want a continuing ‘America’ you had better work to get BO defeated and replaced by someone with integrity. Santorum, Paul or Palin could keep it together. Or maybe one person from a certain third party. But that IS a long shot.
        Pray to your God. Maybe he’ll hear your prayer. maybe not.
        see Isa 59-2

        • Billy Malone

          Oh, I don’t think it’s that bad yet as Obama still has the printing press and a pretty big army.

        • DonWats

          I’m pretty sure Santorum and Palin are Neocon’s, along with the rest of them.

          Basically, Ron Paul is the first choice America has had in sometime. Maybe Ross Perot was a real choice, but I cant say.

          If its not RP then you could flip a coin for all I care.

          • Billy Malone

            Agree on the coin flip

    • Laurence

      A little off. Care to update ? Paul has NO reason to drop out, having beaten most GOP contenders in nearly every poll and caucus. Sometimes Romney wins, but the ‘news’ makes it seem he always does.

  • Surfisher

    Athens-Clarke County, GA Republican Delegate Fraud !!!

    Real people testimony! Unbelievable affront!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDChEDnISOw&context=C40b124aADvjVQa1PpcFOz88TOB8TYXgyksaLA-m4OdjzWPen8Hh4

    MAKE ALL MODES OF CONTACT!! LET THEM KNOW WE AREN’T GOING TO LET THEM GET AWAY WITH FRAUD!! TELL YOUR FRIENDS!!!

    Membership Chairman Bill Griffin
    frozen foods, work number:706-367-9851 | 1-800-277-9851
    lulz

    Chairman: Matt Brewster
    chairman@athensgop.com
    2372 S Milledge Ave, Athens, GA 30605
    706-425-4973

    Vice Chair: Karen Schwind
    kssch2@yahoo.com
    168 Grady Ave, Athens, GA 30601
    706-548-7546

    2nd Vice Chair: Tim Wright
    timwright33@hotmail.com
    135 Carlton Ter, Athens, GA 30606
    706-850-0057

    Athens-Clarke county GOP Contact Information
    (706) 546-4280

    Gail Schrader
    Supervisor of Elections & Voter Registration
    Phone: 706-613-3150
    Fax: 706-613-3840
    155 E. Washington St.
    Athens, GA 30601

    THANK YOU

    • Augie

      Unless of course you want to do research somewhere other than urube and piece together what happended from unimpeachable sources. Since the urube videos I’ve seen are pieced and cut curiously I will not, cannot and must not use them as proof of anything even if I agree with them. propaganda is not what your candidate is about but that is all I see from his supporters.
      Maybe the supporters are plants. Nixon used that tactic in his first run for the presidency. Had hecklers and pundits and liberals paint his opponents as really great, noble even godlike while they painted him as the devil himself. Voters made the logical leap: If looney-tunes here is against him then I’ll be for him.
      If Ron Paul believes there is voter fraud then let him file a legal complaint. If he doesn’t then either he does not see the pay-off is worth the bad press or he thinks he can get those votes later legally.
      Either way – Ron is the candidate. That makes him the leader of his movement. If I am for MittRickyNewt then no way I even care if Mr P was cheated out of two or three delegates.
      Of course we do have four RP diehards and one kookoobird on this blog who will most assuredly send paper, voice, electronic and psychic messages to the aforementioned heinus criminals.
      - don’t hold me to the head count – :-/

      • Surfisher

        Augie — I respect your views.

        But, in the months I’ve posted here, this is only the 3rd video I’ve posted so far (since, I also believe that many are made up — so, use logical standards in determining which one I’ll stand behind). And this one passes the test:

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDChEDnISOw&context=C40b124aADvjVQa1PpcFOz88TOB8TYXgyksaLA-m4OdjzWPen8Hh4

        If you posted the above without watching it — than you did yourself (and the board here) a disservice (generalizing that ALL YouTube videos are invalid is not a conclusion, but an opinion. Since if one is true, than your argument collapses).

        If you don’t care to watch the full 12 minutes — than, as a courtesy to me, please, watch the ACTUAL “vote” recorded by video — from minute 1:20 to minute 2:30 (70 seconds of your time I ask).

        If you do so, let me know that what is seen is NOT an OUTRAGE!

        • http://www.indigenecommunity.info Douglas Jack

          Augie, Surfisher, Such a well-done disciplined video on the caucus events in Georgia. My appreciation to all you are doing on behalf of Political Democracy. It is also important that we begin to understand the original Economic Democracy of First Nations here and indigenous peoples around the world. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/relational-economy/8-economic-democracy

          We don’t want to just understand what is wrong but more how to “become the change we want to see in the world”. The Ron Paul organization is unique very far advanced and disciplined as a movement of ‘democracy’ (Greek = ‘power of the people’) compared with anything the USA has ever had in its history including the not-proud beginnings as a racist, sexist state organized simply to grab land from the sovereign original peoples.

          • Billy Malone

            simply to grab land from the sovereign original peoples.

            Yeah but it worked, again many died so a few could become even richer than they were.

          • Augie

            Still disagree with video.
            1) It was edited very carefully. What happened before the vote? Was the meeting disrupted in any way? (The dems use that tactic to obstruct progress) Why was the camera already on? Why was the atmosphere in the room so tense? Too many questions.
            2) The person trying to get an interview was shunned even before she asked any questions. Why? She refused him to even touch her. Why?
            Again too many questions.
            3) the cameraman promised to make it available to all media but no one took it up. Even local media ignored it.
            4) Georgia has a stop voter fraud website. It was apparently not used.
            5) The candidate has never addressed this yet. Even his website is silent. Maybe he is a co-conspirator?
            6) I may not be putting the search terms in correctly. But all of my searches come back to this video. That is coinkeedink.
            BUT But I agree that Ron Paul would if he were elected (Republican or otherwise) he would set up a scenario where minorities could begin to have their voice heard. Provided he backs off from his secure the border stand. Until the laws governing all facets of immigration are reformed there is just no fence high enough and no militia strong enough to do the job! Right now we have criminals (true criminals) with cart blanch to come and go with impunity. only the poor saps trying to get a job that provides for their families are hurt. And the business owners that hire them at 1/2 minimum wage stay in business.
            If any of you RonPaulOnly types has access to the candidate tell him I wrote this.

            • Billy Malone

              no fence high enough and no militia strong enough to do the job!

              Common ground, I agree and I need Pedro to cut my grass

      • Surfisher

        Augie —

        On one point I totally disagree with you: “If I am for MittRickyNewt then no way I even care if Mr P was cheated out of two or three delegates.”

        This type of cynicism is despicable! And I’m surprised you posted it (that some fraud is more acceptable than other).

        I’ll do my best to assure that anyone placing their vote for Mitt/Rick/Newt is counted — regardless how it may affect my candidate’s (Ron Paul) chances!

        • Augie

          Point conceded in principle.
          But my people have been cheated at the polls for so long that it is taken for granted. When we find it we fight. We picket. We call the media. The same media you decry because the far right won’t give us air time. And so far we don’t get much airtime with RonMittRickyNewt either. We get speaches. We’ve heard these speaches before. We wen Republican and we were pushed aside. We went Democrat and we were forgotten. We don’t want favoritism we want equal footing. Same laws for you and for me. No laws that punish me for being willing to work hard. No laws that require me to have a law degree in order to discover that the land I lived on for three hundred years must now be purchased from the government at 2012 prices.
          @Surfisher, I really do respect you and the fact that you want your government to listen to you. I just want it to be my government too. and everything posted by the RonPaulOnly movers tells me the same thing: It only counts if you’re white.

          • Billy Malone

            It only counts if you’re white.

            Tell that to the man in the White House

          • Augie

            @Billy Malone, I thought about that for a while. He promised blacks, browns, asians and native americans that together we could do anything. I did not fall for this lie but many of my friends and family did. They won’t again.
            With BO it turns out minorities have actually suffered more than in the Bush and Clinton years. Our real wage was dropping but at least we were working! Perhaps I should have said “It only counts if you have bribe money” But I was referring to the RonPaulOnly people. The ones who call him ‘savior, wise father, and the ONLY ONE’. Their posts would make me think it only counts if you’re white.
            My view is that it only counts if you are in the ‘club’ and my people are not in that club. yet. We have hope that we will be someday. The Irish got in. The Italians got in. The Germans and the blacks got in. Leaves only native americans,asians, and latinos. Some day we will get in too.

            • Billy Malone

              I was referring to the RonPaulOnly people.

              I’m one of them because I just don’t believe that more of the same is the answer. I think it’s time to circle the wagons and forget about going on the attack for a while anyhow.

        • Augie

          I want to bring you on a short tour of history. from my side of the waters.
          Not until the fifteenth century did it become illegal in western countries not to be a citizen of the country. That was Spain. and it was because the spanish monarch wanted to purge his country of muslims. sound familiar?
          Other countries quickly followed suit. Portugal. England. Germania. Italy.
          China had already failed with the experiment but no one asked them.
          Fast forward to the seventeenth century ‘america’. Germans came. Italians came. Spanish and Africans came. no one cared. welcome all.
          Then came the Spanish American Ware and the louisiana aquisition. Suddenly it was not just the ‘indians’ that prevented us from becoming wealthy now we had to hate the French and the Spanish immigrants because they owned the lands we wanted. We made laws. We did not tell them. We evicted them. all legally.
          Fast forward to 1900.
          Slavery was abolished and we needed farm hands cheap. We offered the Mexican Government trade and cash.
          Mexican nationals came to the US expecting minimum but fair wages.
          We got cheated on a massive scale. then ‘America’ went into a recession and we were deported. Except since no one could tell who was who many of us stayed.
          Repeat that in 1933 and repeat it again in 1950 and again in 2008.
          Again and again laws were passed to make us illegal even when we were not.
          As a whole, don’t expect sympathy from latinos or blacks or asians or even Native americans. WE have been fighting this fight for generations.

          • Billy Malone

            I think it’s called the blame game.

            The function of the federal government is to provide an environment where business can be conducted without force or fraud. The rest is up to the state.

        • Augie

          What would you say if I gave you money to grow corn and rice and beans FREE!
          Great right? so you grow them. then what?
          So you sell them to Mexico at a price that allows you to take care of the import fees, transportation fees and a small profit.
          You dump them.
          Mexican farmers go out of business. But wait. It is illegal to grow marijuana or poppies in the US.
          Guess what is the new cash crop for Mexican farmers. Who’s fault is it?
          And you build a wall to keep out the mexicans. but it doesn’t work so you hire guards and hire police to look for them. costs you billions.
          Go inland a few miles and discover that a company is hiring illegals at half minimum wage. So you deport the illegals. and the company just hires more.
          Because you’ve made the migrant worker illegal but not the hiring of illegals.
          See the pattern? Thats why immigration reform must go before border enforcement. It just won’t work in reverse. You can’t keep out people who are already in. And YOU brought them here. By deceit.

          • Billy Malone

            Hey you will never beat a cheater that get away with it. He wll put you out of business every time.

      • Laurence

        I saw no apparent nor significant cutting in this video.
        Taping the entire vote would be very long and tiresome.Have you ever voted?
        The vote which was to be caught on tape was denied by the chairman.
        The point of the video was the announcement of a delegate being chosen who was not present, and ignoring rules to maintain the fraud.

  • Augie

    OK. I suffered through another video. And I promise every video I used for my statements was watched and rewatched. I don’t do impression theology. That means after I watch a video and get the impression I rewatch it for details.
    This is my take:
    I know Clark county. I am latino. I was stranded in Clark county in 1979 while in the military.
    Clark County has had a reputation for at least 130 years as a boss run county. to point it out now is not news. but it needs to be addressed at a national level and prosecuted. if possible. remember this is one of the counties that held onto Jim Crowe laws as long as possible so that they could continue discrimination. Legally.
    Again, there is cut and comment.
    Again I am having problems finding written verification for the problem.
    Again, it portrays the entire state as biased against Ron Paul.
    Again it fails to provide Ron Paul’s response. Does he even know? If not why not. The president will be required to know and act on all facts presented to him. Was this not presented to him?
    What I will say, and I will say it repeatedly: urube is no place for proof. It is a place to shout and anyone can and does shout there.
    I want the candidate’s words. I want his response to the events. And I want the views of all the candidates expressed without cut and slant.
    I don’t want to defend Mitt. but everone knows how he was hurt by misquotes of his “I like to fire people” speach.
    To be clear, I support Ron Paul’s position on international affairs. I support his position on cutting entitlements. I support his right to life stand.
    I don’t agree with his position on immigration reform.
    And the United States of America has repeatedly abused minority peoples as well as the Native Americans. Under his plan what happens to us?
    So, while I admire your devotion to Ron, to me he is just another anglo-elite who plans and programs for the good of white america. And if blacks and browns and yellows don’t get to share in that then why should we care?
    A county in Georgia won’t count your vote. Welcome to my world.
    This will drone on if I don’t stop now so count your blessings. I can get VERY verbose.

    • Surfisher

      Augie — re: “A county in Georgia won’t count your vote. Welcome to my world. This will drone on if I don’t stop now so count your blessings. I can get VERY verbose.”

      It is not how much you say, it is what you say that counts.

      So two wrongs make a right according to you…?

      Sorry Augie, but IN MY WORLD no wrong can excuse another!

      • Augie

        @Surfisher,
        I did not say that it was OK. I did not say it was excusable. I said it needed to be addressed by the candidate. My candidates in the past tried to overcome poling place bias and discrimination. When they did we made progress. When they didn’t we got clubbed. Where was your outrage when my people were getting turned away at the polls because we had strong accents or just looked like we might not be ok to vote?
        Here’s an outrage: farmers get subsidies to grow corn rice and beans so that it costs them almost nothing. They then dump it in Mexico so that the farmers can’t make a living at it. The farm workers cannot feed their families so they sneek into the United States to send back money to their families. So We build a fence and lock them up. And the farmer gets rich while the farm workers that made him rich twice get deported.
        Your words hit hard. They show you feel entitled to be heard but you don’t care if I’m heard. Then you shout pious words as if they were the answer.
        Well, I’ll say it again in different words. You felt you were entitled to be heard but did nothing when my people were denied the right to be heard. So I will be forgiven if I’m still trying to get my vote counted so I have no time to help you get yours counted. Let’s see that same outrage come to bear when latinos come to the polls and are not allowed to vote because “I don’t understand your english”
        And “you don’t look like you belong”. I know this exists because I experienced it.
        I look white. by that I mean I have a pale complexion and carry myself like I belong. but when I was in the military I was denied voting in my own state because I had developed a tan and was very tired from a week in the field. I had to come back with my commanding officer to vouch for me. and the poll worker? high fives.
        And yes it is what you say. You say your candidate is losing but really winning. And you say your candidate is being cheated. But he is not filing any papers. so YOU take it on yourself to bring an outrage for all the world to judge. handpicked.
        not the same as the outrages being perpetrated on your opponents. Everyone should call, write and telepath the people who did this even though it hurts their candidate. But when my people get beaten with clubs for showing up to the polls and we want justice you call us crybabies. Weeeeelll.
        I’m not calling anyone on the strength of a urube movie no matter how strongly you think it is correct.
        And if you have shown it to the candidate and he is not filing a complaint then why should I?
        And furthurmore. twist my words and you lose a possible ally. Remember all my posts where I supported RP policies? (with one exception but all republican candidates have a similar position there). I don’t give that much support to anyone else on the ballot but I am concerned that people who call other people sheep when they don’t agree. and attack one word in a page. THEY really represent the candidate’s views. And NOT MINE
        So you think you can pick and choose and get my support when you treat me like BO treated the conservatives on obamacare? He got all high and mighty with women’s rights and said right to lifers didn’t have a case. just what you are doing to me.
        No. I’ll say it again in a different way. Stop trying to brainwash us with urube links. They are blatant propaganda and anyone who formulates an oppinion based on what they see there is danger of falling for anything.
        And that was the last urube video I’ll suffer through!

        • Billy Malone

          Pedro had better find a way to sneak in because I ain’t about to cut my grass & trim my trees.

          • Surfisher

            Billy Malone — LOL

            Too bad, because my kids were willing to cut your grass…but Pedro, and his illegal cousins, snaked in and are already on your lawn….

            • Billy Malone

              I go away a lot and only pay them twice a year in advance. They have never missed a cut and I don’t think they speak a word of English. Got them from my neighbor as they cut 6 homes on the block.

        • Surfisher

          Augie —

          The Topic was the 2012 GOP race — and possible frauds therein. NOT YOUR INTRODUCTION of a tangent —what happened in the past with “your people” — Latinos — and your SPECULATION that I wasn’t outraged!

          1) I’m racially colorblind — I judge people according to merit, not the color of their skin. I make it a priority that ALL US Citizens (since they all are my fellow countrymen) have a say, and their vote is not stolen from them (regardless for whom they voted)!

          Your post, on the other hand, is mostly a disturbing diatribe. Your only concern seems to be with “my people” — Latinos — and total lack of concern for the rest of your countrymen.

          2) The video I submitted ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDChEDnISOw ) was for all to see — and draw their own conclusions as to it’s validity (mine is that it shows definitively a GOP delegate fraud). You went BALLISTIC — and posted all kinds of tangent “reasons” why it is not to be trusted nor accorded further scrutiny!

          3) I post here to illuminate what I’ve logically concluded to be right or wrong — not to win a popularity contest.
          I have no intention of “Twisting words” to gain an ally — especially one such as yourself— in your own posts you display a near hatred of Whites. Shame on you for disregarding some of the US Citizens Rights based on their skin color!

          4) People deserve their Government — if the USA elected an idiot as president, than we deserve our idiocy. If Mexico has a bad Government — than the Mexicans deserve their lot! We, Americans, are trying our best to change the Government for the better — if we fail, we won’t ask for a foreign nation to excuse us! Same goes for Mexico — change your Government there, to make things better for Mexicans — don’t INVADE us by crossing the US border ILLEGALLY (go back, and solve your Mexican Government problems there).

          5) Here is my stance on Immigration Law — it is immutable regardless of the popular view of the day!

          a) All legal immigrants are welcomed!

          b) All Illegal Immigrants (about 12 Million Mexican Nationals as of 2011 !!!!) are to be sent back to Mexico ASAP — and any other Illegals to be sent to their respective countries.

          c) Any USA Company or Citizens hiring Illegals — 50% of their income in Penalty PLUS 5 years in jail! 30 years ago it was USA teenagers cutting the lawns and working in McDonald’s and such — now AMERICAN teenagers can’t get a job, because 30+ year-old Illegal Mexicans are filling these positions!

          d) An Illegal giving birth in the USA must not mean that the child becomes a US Citizen — the geographical location is plain silly — ONLY the Citizenship of the parent is to be the determining factor!

          In conclusion — We, Americans, are trying to save our Nation (not Mexico, or others)!

          • Augie

            @Surfisher, you should be ashamed but you have no shame.
            THE CANDIDATE HAS YET TO TAKE ACTION!!!!! UNTIL HE DOES YOU ARE NO MORE THAN A PROPAGANDA MINISTER TRYING TO SWAY PEOPLE WITH INCOMPLETE EMOTION DRAMA!
            And as to “All legal immigrants are welcomed”
            You Americans? Really? My Grandfather was born in Washington and my father was born in San Francisco. Who exactly do you mean by we americans?
            I have only put out what you and your people have done to mine as historical fact. WE (my people) have worked hard to make it possible for this nation to succeed (even dying in wars that were not of our own making or interest.
            YOU PEOPLE made the rule that birth made citizenship after you made the law that property ownership certified citizenship and WE made the claim that we were the lawful owners of the land. Then YOU evicted (deported) us to lands we did not know and said “stay there”. THEN you made the law that you had to be born here to be a citizen! AFTER YOU HAD DEPORTED US! Oh and then you absorbed those lands but by then we were not citizens.
            If all the Ron Paul people were as insensitive and hard-hearted (not to mention misinformed) not only would Ron Paul lose and lose big but he could cost the Republican party the general election! And there goes the nation!
            Can you say “toilet?” I bet you can!
            All legal immigrants are welcomed? YOU DECIDED to bring “mexican” farmers to work your farms.
            Exactly who were these farmers? Do you care? NO. They were the people who criss-crossed the river for centuries in order to follow the natural flow of nature. Instead of depleting the resources of the land to the point that it needs chemicals to be able to produce. These were the people who were denied formal education by the spanish and by the americans because we were not able to learn. YET NOW WE OCCUPY 20% OF ALL LEGAL OFFICES IN THE SOUTHWEST.
            And How about this? My Father was born in San Francisco and my grandfather was born in Washington and I had to apply for citizenship because I was born in the US embassy in Mexico City!!!!!
            I was given a commission in the United States Marine Corps and served as an Officer which only a citizen can do because they recognized that I was correctly a citizen but when I went to vote the first time THEY TOLD ME NO! Two years later the lawyers decided I was legal. REALLY?
            If you will not make the laws fair then don’t expect them to work. We now have mastered the law and we won’t let you do it to us again.
            Part of the reason you can have your double latte in the morning on the drive to you airconditioned office is that some peon is slaving in your fields in order to bring you inexpensive produce. Try making your life work if you had to pay $2 per head of lettuce or $40 per pound of ground beef. How about $20 for a cup of coffee? Have you been to the rest of the world lately?
            Pay the farm hands minimum wage plus medical and that is exactly what you’ll get.
            You go to McDonalds? Seldom I bet. If you find a 50+ mexican working there he is probably the cook. working for $10/hour and keeps his job because he shows up to work on time, not high and works hard. Or he is the bus boy working for $7/hour during the hours the “kids” can’t or won’t work. Most of these people are verifiably here legally. They pay taxes. The McDonalds, Burger Kings and Kentucky Fried of this country go to great lengths to make sure they hire legally. The illegals find work cleaning your toilets, taking care of your lawns and watching your kids. Oh and working for the food truck out that moves every two months.
            I have often said that ANYONE who hires someone without documentation should serve jail time, surrender their property and pay the cost of sending each of the “illegals” to their native country. THEN THEY won’t offer the jobs! Problem Solved.
            And this goes for the farmers who dump beans, rice and corn in Mexico so that it is not profitable to grow crops there!
            @Surfisher, You clearly won’t be persuaded even if someone returns from the dead to tell you but here is the fact. The video is crap. It is the only evidence put out and it only proves that no one wanted to talk to the people in the video. AND THE CANDIDATE HAS YET TO TAKE ACTION!!!!! UNTIL HE DOES YOU ARE NO MORE THAN A PROPAGANDA MINISTER TRYING TO SWAY PEOPLE WITH INCOMPLETE EMOTION DRAMA!

            • Billy Malone

              Yeah Surfisher, LOL but while on the subject of voting:

              The true reason of requiring any qualification, with regard to property, in voters, is to exclude such persons as are in so mean a situation that they are esteemed to have no will of their own. If these persons had votes, they would be tempted to dispose of them under some undue influence or other. This would give a great, an artful, or a wealthy man, a larger share in elections than is consistent with general liberty

              Not a bad thought

          • Billy Malone

            Citizens hiring Illegals — 50% of their income in Penalty PLUS 5 years in jail!

            Can Padro still cut my lawn if I’m in jail???

            Augie may have been a little off topic but I did learned a few thing from him and there is a bit of truth to what he posted.

            Moving right along ………………

      • Billy Malone

        no wrong can excuse another!

        I don’t know about that as a lot of people do right for the wrong reason.

    • Billy Malone

      The president will be required to know and act on all facts presented to him.

      Yeah like the high price of gasoline. I know the answer my friend is blowing in the wind but hundreds of jets with their engines running are holding on taxiways for takeoff because of government regs.

      • Augie

        @Billy Malone,
        Agreed,
        Just one more reason we need to replace BO with someone who can do the job.

        • Billy Malone

          Oh the list of things the Prez could do tomorrow to drive down the price of oil is endless. One thing for sure, if he had just done nothing we we be in a whole lot better shape than we are now. All those tax dollars squandered . the $240,000 Chevy Volt that even with a $7000 government incentive can’t be sold for a small fraction of what it cost to build.

          Let me tell you those battery packs are a bomb given the right collision. No they won’t explode but you can weld with them big time.

  • http://www.indigenecommunity.info Douglas Jack

    Augie, Imperial history tells us that California, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas, Florida and more were ‘Mexican’. What imperial history doesn’t tell us is that Mexicans and Latino’s are more than 85% First Nation bloodline. You are right in your dates except that these Spanish speaking folks moved from the southern quarter of the USA to become refugees, are mostly First Nation who have been there for some 35,000 years. So English whites come in with a white only constitution and steal land. When these now refugee families come back home to their ancestral homes, the whites call them ‘wetbacks’. There has been and continues a massive uprooting of peoples, which isn’t settled by calling it “history”. Refugees don’t become settled again until somewhere accepts them or they reclaim their home. First Nation concepts of ownership is through inclusive relational participation in the means of production. Colonial ownership is through land and property based exclusion.

    First Nations ‘indigenous’ (Latin = ‘self-generating’) Production Society corporate economies were based in time-based human resource accounting and the 3-dimensional polyculture orchard could accept and welcome everyone. ‘Exogenous’ (L = ‘other-generated’) peoples because their accounting is based on stealing resources and linear monetary accounting welcome no-one, exploit everyone and the earth through ‘agriculture’ (L ‘ager’ = ‘field) until desert takes over everything. Its really about working with life for abundance versus working against life for scarcity. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/design/food-materials-resouces.

    Ron Paul and followers have the no-war! part of the story correct, but when they come to the constitution, then RP and followers in some kind of glorious ‘Good old days for good old boys’ amnesia refer to the English only, white only, male only genocidal constitution as some kind of guide to the future.

    • Augie

      @Douglas Jack,
      You are exactly right. The spanish speaking bloodline is the result of Spaniard massacre and rape of Native Americans which you correctly call First Nation. However the peoples of THIS nation cannot be expected to abide by treaty or promise. My people criss-crossed the border between the United States and Mexico for five thousand years and kept faith with the land and the life in the land. When the spanish white nation came they told us we no longer owned the land and told us we had to buy it from them. Four generations later the english white nation came and told us the land we had bought was no longer ours and we had to buy it back. So now you know my story. You are exactly correct but I do not believe the RP people understand this. If they did they would treat all people with respect. Even the people who disagree with them and this is not the case.
      I have made a point of bringing history to the front of the argument but they only hear the white side. They only hear the anglo side. And it is because of this that they do not understand people like me. Or you. And their very nation is at risk because they do not understand. But it is a beginning. At least now they begin to know what is peace. Maybe in our lifetime.

      • Surfisher

        Augie — now this is syrupy, sickening propaganda excusing your hatred of Whites in the 21st century!

        And on top of it you state —”And their very nation is at risk because they do not understand.”

        So you are NOT an AMERICAN than (because it is “their” not OUR nation)!

        So, I just wasted my time posting to you — I can do just about anything, but put brains into a fool’s head….

        • Augie

          You pick and choose one or two words out of a book and condemn the book. Let me state this in a way even your limited inteligence can understand. We were here first. This is our land. This is our nation.
          You provide government for us. By force and by deceit but it is our government thanks you you. I will put it in another way. You are not americans. you are illegal invaders who have sought to legitimize your rape of our land and our people by calling yourselves democratic freedom loving people. This is the phrase that attracts people like me. Freedom loving. But you have and continue to creat a divide that we cannot cross.
          ***I was speaking to a person who understood ‘First Nation’ as the people who were here first and who were pushed out illegally and forced to live in unfamiliar and non supporting lands
          So now. Say goodbye to the rest of your campaign to position Mr Paul in the position of “Leader of the Free World”. I can convice a man to cut spending even if he wants to spend. I cannot convince a man that I am his equal unless he is predisposed to being equal with all men.
          I can put brains in a fools head if he is willing but you? . . .
          If you are like Ron Paul then I won’t support him. and I’ll do my best to make sure he doesn’t get enough votes to influence the GOP convention. Because of you.
          All of you that post slurs and insults need to catch yourselves. None of you is better than another and none of you has earned the right to call anyone else on this post a fool. None of you!

          • SailAway

            Hello Augie. I am curious. What is your heritage? Incan, Mayan, Aztec, Toltec, Pueblo, Navajo?

            • Billy Malone

              Navajo? maybe just a Chicago Ho, sorry I just had to post it.

          • Augie

            @Sailaway,
            Snoqualmie or part of the Lushootseed.
            You may have heard of our neighbors the WallaWalla or the Nimi ipu?
            If you are interested there are good websites that give overviews and some transcribed oral history.
            You are kind to ask.

          • SailAway

            I have heard of the Walla Walla. Pacific Northwest if I am not mistaken. Did your people participate in the Potlatch festival? Are they among those who have in recent years begun to reintroduce their native language in a more formal way to the younger generation?

            My own native heritage is more Eastern and North Eastern geographically. Eastern Cherokee and one of the six tribes of the Iroquois, but I do not know which one. My great great grand-father was a Dutch trader who married an Iroquois woman. Their son, my great grandfather married a Cherokee woman and were my paternal grandmother’s parents. That’s about all I know. I wish I knew more about them as my grandmother was awesome, but died too young from cancer.

            • Augie

              Exactly on target.
              Puget Sound to be precise.
              The Potlatch festival was not originally part of our practice but everyone is welcome and some of my family to participate.
              As to our language: I don’t think even my grandmother understood what she was saying. some cousins still know a few words but since WWII we mostly speak english.

            • Billy Malone

              we mostly speak English.

              Well then you a way ahead of 90% of the palefaces….

            • Billy Malone

              I have heard of the Walla Walla. Pacific Northwest

              So did Lewis and Clark: (Paleface go home)

          • Billy Malone

            Gee I thought it was Adam & Eve and the got run off their land just like everyone else after them. Has any nation in history ever held on to their land any length of time? All good thing must come to an end. Even Rome fell.

          • Surfisher

            @Augie — March 17, 2012 at 1:52 am

            This offensive diatribe shows the difference b/w you and me. Here is you partial rant of this inexcusable propaganda: “… We were here first. This is our land. This is our nation. You (whites) provide government for us. By force and by deceit but it is our government thanks you you. I will put it in another way. You are not americans. you are illegal invaders who have sought to legitimize your rape of our land and our people by calling yourselves democratic freedom loving people….”
            ——————————————————–

            Your ONLY concern is with “your people” — US Citizens that are Latinos, Native Americans; brown, black, yellow, etc. (per your other posts) — while displaying hatred, and total lack of concern, for the REST of US Citizens that are WHITE! You transfer the “sins of the fathers to their sons”, and use this nonsensical cliche to bash all white Americans NOW!

            I do not proclaim you to be a Racist — by your own statements, Logic does.

            As if this was not offensive enough — you proceed to justify by sophism the “reasons” why US Citizens should accept the 12+ Million Undocumented Illegal Mexicans as a boon!
            ——————————————————-

            In contrast with you, MY concern is that ALL US Citizens have a say (and their votes are properly counted)— not only the ones that match my skin color!
            ——————————————————

            Here is my conclusion:

            Augie, you are a divisive Latino Activist (caring only to spread your ‘color-coded’ propaganda). You care not a whit about the rest of Americans. You have no concerns that these 12+ Million Illegal Mexicans are taking away jobs from USA Citizens (the teenagers, the poor, the old!) — because, according to you, they are “your Latino people” and should be here!
            ——————————————————-

            Have you traveled the world — do you know what 12+ Million people mean in actual numbers?

            Take the nation of Sweden (9+ Million people) and add the nation of Latvia (2+ Million people) = about 12+ Million people (men, women and children). If all these people were transferred to the USA, leaving these two European Nations empty of people — than you can perceive the enormity!

            But if they ALL came here from Europe as Illegals — you’ll scream “bloody murder”, since they are White and not Latinos!
            ————————————–

            Sorry to say, but you, Augie, and your sidekick, Douglass Jack, are nothing more than White People Haters. You’ll contribute nothing for the Salvation of our AMERICAN Nation, except sob-stories of times past that you contrive to excuse your CURRENT attempt to divide us!

            Shame on both of you!

            • Billy Malone

              McDougal’s Cave

        • Billy Malone

          Jeremiah Alvesta Wright, Jr. could not have said it better

      • http://www.indigenecommunity.info Douglas Jack

        Augie, Considering the stakes humanity and the Ron Paul campaign faces from racism, it is a pleasure to hear your voice. You are offering truth & abundance as First Nation peoples have for centuries. My previous post supporting you and pointing out Mexican and First Nation status as the original peoples here was taken down. True history is the most threatening to falsehood as it challenges the ground they stand upon. You are right that our people travelled freely over the whole of Turtle Island by canoe even to the Turtle Tail called Central America on pristine rivers even among populated areas with tens of millions of people like the valley of Mexico, the Mound cities of the Mississippi Valley and the thickly populated Polyculture Orchard of the Aymara-Jamamadi-Apurina of the Amazon of Brazil.
        The contributors on this post and in the Ron Paul campaign can be lauded for standing up for peace however limited their understanding is. Most don’t realize the injury they suffered as European Celtic peoples who resisted Greek and Roman violent incursions over a couple of thousand years. Indigenous Celtic Peoples lived in Multihome buildings, worked in Production Society (Guild) specialties gaining progressive ownership over their lifetimes with Economic Democracy, listened to the united voice of women in Production Societies and in Women’s councils, used the String-Shell time-based human resource accounting tools. Celts ate acorns from the abundant Oak (‘Druid’ means ‘wisdom of the oak’), Walnut, Hazelnut and other productive polyculture orchard trees. The 3-dimensional orchards produce 100 times the produce, water, soil, air and other abundant life in comparison to the scarcity of 2-d ‘agriculture’ (Latin ‘ager’ = ‘field’). The first thing Romans ‘pioneers’ (L ‘pion’ = ‘pawn’) did was cut down the abundance so that people would be slaves. The first thing ‘pioneers’ did here as forgetful refugees from Europe was cut down the abundant First Nation orchards across these continents so as to live as slaves. Perhaps none of the people in Ron Paul’s campaign who are some of the most open in America have any real idea of living and working in abundance because they are institutionally indoctrinated and never been exposed to the truth. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/e-history/3-celtic-europe

        • Meeman

          There was no such people as the ‘Celts’. That was a made-up word in a story book. Best to do your research a bit more thoroughly than that.

          • Billy Malone

            yet another group of “invented” people????

        • Surfisher

          Douglas Jack — March 16, 2012 at 10:26 pm · Reply

          “Ron Paul’s racism”…? — the only Racism displayed so far is yours, and Augie’s (your bashing of people because they do not match your skin color)!

          You two need to be ashamed for such affront!

          • http://www.indigenecommunity.info Douglas Jack

            Surfisher, I wrote “Considering the stakes humanity and the Ron Paul campaign faces from racism”. You misquote me by distorting it to, “Ron Paul’s racism”…?” and concocted in a tirade, “— the only Racism displayed so far is yours, and Augie’s (your bashing of people because they do not match your skin color)! You two need to be ashamed for such affront!

            Surfisher, You use the word “illegals” for people who have been here for 35000 years in comments to Augie and then describe how you care for all Americans????

            Does the Ron Paul campaign not face negative impacts for its support of people of colour? My white skin colour obligates me to challenge racism because in the end, “What goes around, comes around” and we all end up losing if we don’t stand together.

            Meeman wrote, “There was no such people as the ‘Celts’. That was a made-up word in a story book. Best to do your research a bit more thoroughly than that.”
            Language such as the word “Celt” is used widely across thousands of articles to mean the original peoples of Europe before Greek and Roman colonies, and who spoke a set of related languages which are remarkable for linguistic similarities. Others, perhaps those who you refer to deny the existence of a Celtic people and see a broad range of influences from many sources, which is also true.

            Billy Malone writes, “yet another group of “invented” people????”

            The US propensity to call original peoples “illegals” sounds similar to: South African Bantustans, Israel calling Palestinians “invented peoples” after 65 years of mostly European immigration and occupation and still the denial goes on. What is it about conquerers rewriting history to their own supposed favour? In the end all the lies come right back to future generations. As white folk, why would we want to leave our children and grandchildren a faulty legacy? Fact is that we are all voices of the earth with important complementary truths delegated among us about how to operate this space ship. It takes all of us to reach our destination. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/home/2-mutual-aid

            • Billy Malone

              Could this be yet a second line in the sand drawn in front of the Surfisher??????

      • Billy Malone

        Somewhere along the line I think one of the Mexican leaders took a pile of money from the US rather than continue the fight. Just don’t have time to look it up.

  • SailAway

    Regarding an erroneous report on this forum about impeachment proceedings in Congress against Obama. This is not in progress. One Congressman has introduced a Concurrent Resolution in the House expressing the “sense of the Congress” as to the use of force by the President without authorization from Congress. A Concurrent Resolution is a specific type of action in Congress for house-keeping and operational tasks as well as a vehicle for the expression of opinion (or “sense”) of the members of the Congress. And, even if passed by both the House and Senate has no force of law.

    Impeachment requires that the House Judiciary Committee initiates such an action. Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee initiates a resolution to call upon that committee to look into whether there is a basis for impeachment of the President (to make a formal inquiry). If the committee decides by a simple majority there is a basis then it sends a resolution to the full House stating there is a basis and why, containing one or more ‘Articles of Impeachment’.

    The full House must vote upon each article. A simple majority vote on any one or on more than one article means that the President has been impeached, which is functionally equivalent to a Grand Jury handing down an indictment in criminal court. Then it is referred to the Senate for trial.

    In the Senate Trial the Chief Justice of the US Supreme Court presides and all 100 members of the Senate act as the jury. The Presidents lawyers defend and a select group of House members act as prosecutors. A 2/3 Senate majority vote for conviction is required to remove the President from office.

    The Concurrent Resolution introduced by Congressman Walter B. Jones Jr. is not, I repeat not, a beginning of this process. It is intended as a kind of warning that the President and his Defense Secretary need to take the Congress more seriously in regard to decisions to use military force in the future.

    This was triggered by the obvious disdain for Congress demonstrated by Secretary Panetta in recent Congressional hearings regarding actions the Obama Administration may be contemplating in regard to Syria.

    The current Chairman of the House Judiciary Committee is Lamar Smith of Texas. His committee will discuss the Concurrent Resolution and determine its fate vis-a-vie the full House, but this is not the first step in an impeachment process.

    • Augie

      I love the fact that you use fact and not emotion to decide what to post.
      Unfortunately there are at least three, maybe four on this forum who will state as fact that impeachment is imminent AFTER your post.
      I only hope there are others like you out there.
      Otherwise I think you waste your time here. Thanks for trying.

      • Billy Malone

        You don’t argue fact, you look it up and if posted wrong you post it corrected.

        • Surfisher

          Billy Malone — yeap!

  • SailAway

    Thanks for you response. Even some media outlets are reporting this as an impeachment resolution, but it is merely posturing at this point. There will be no impeachment in an election year. Perhaps there will be next year if Obama wins reelection, but not this year. Too politically dangerous and a waste of time.

    Did you see my post asking about your heritage? I am always curious about what makes each of us who we are. I know a little about my own heritage, but not as much as I would like. I kind of refer to myself as Heinz 57 because my background is diverse. Some European and some native American, but the specifics are unclear due to a lot of estrangement throughout my family the last three generations. My grandfather’s family did not approve that he married my grandmother who was native American.

    • Augie

      Sadly, or maybe proudly. most native americans are also mezclado or mixed. The only thing that proves me to my cousins is my nose. and the fact that my hair is still black at 60.
      You could follow your native heritige by following the location where your grandparents met. Then narrow down to family customs and religion. I was able to know my grandmother and she told me a lot that I never believed. But I think there was a kernel of fact in the stories she told me.

      • Billy Malone

        ou could follow your native heritige by following the location where your grandparents met.

        I’ll drink to that………come to think about it that’s where them met at a speak easy.

    • Billy Malone

      Son Don’t Go Near the Indians

  • SailAway

    To Augie and others on this forum. I will likely agree with and disagree with much of what people post on this forum. And I have been aggravated by some of the personal attacks I’ve read and a lot of drivel masquerading as “documented fact”. I have had to resist the innate urge to respond in kind and it is sometimes difficult. I am certain it is difficult for others as well.

    We all take the time to read and post on these forums because we care passionately about our country and many of us see it being destroyed by a lot of selfish and power-hungry morons in Washington and elsewhere in this country. We should argue passionately because we care, but we should all try not to attack one another simply because either our points are invalid or poorly presented. Most of the time we misunderstand one another and that leads to hurt feelings and frustration and we lash out. Likely many of us who disagree would be friends if we actually met and got to know one another.

    I cannot change someone else, but I can try to govern my own actions and words and encourage others to try this as well.

    • Billy Malone

      but we should all try not to attack one another simply because either our points are invalid or poorly presented.

      You mean like the candidates are doing?????

  • Augie

    Thank you for the wisdom @SailAway. You are right and I hereby apologize to Surfisher and anyone else I may have offended on this post.
    Anger got the best of me. I am sorry.

    • SailAway

      Hey, it takes a mature and caring person to do that. We may disagree on much in the future (or not), but I respect you for your humbleness and honesty. Well spoken.

      We need to find a native American forum or something on which to continue corresponding. I like the cut of your jib. [That's an old sailor's term and I am an old sailor :-) ]

      • Augie

        There used to be a site called FirstNation but I don’t think its active anymore.
        Most sites now are mostly for entertainment. not my style.
        Thanks for the interest. I’m a retired Marine myself. 25 Years! hoorah!

        • SailAway

          @Augie

          Thank you for your service to our country. It is much appreciated. My grandfather served in Korea in the Army and two uncles, one Air Force, the other Military Intelligence. Our men and women in uniform are awesome and to be appreciated and admired. I’ll say it again, I like the cut of your jib. :-)

          • Billy Malone

            Our men and women in uniform are awesome

            (A few exceptions)

        • SailAway

          Don’t want to leave a wrong impression that I am patting myself on the back in my message of thanks. By “an old sailor” I did not mean professional as in serving in the Navy. I wanted to, but my family “guilted” me out of it because my mother was ill.

          By “sailor” I mean I am one who loves to sail and by old I mean…, well, I am old :-)

      • Billy Malone

        careful what you wish for

    • Billy Malone

      Gee what if the Surfisher sees him as Injun Joe

      • Surfisher

        Billy Malone —

        low dig…

        • Billy Malone

          That was in response to SailAway’s post concerning a Native American forum (Augie). I take it he is part Indian. I think his tribe was the one that pulled in the welcome mat on Lewis & Clark.

  • SailAway

    @Augie

    It is interesting to discuss this with you today of all days. Just over this last evening I met a gal who is Inuit, Spanish, Scottish, and Irish. We talked a little about her visiting the Nunavut Territory of Canada some day.

    There is a lot to be said for not being of mixed heritage, but also a lot for being of a diverse heritage. I know some Chinese women who are awesome and beautiful, but the gal I met this evening who is of mixed heritage was like an angel and so nice and so proud of her heritage. She is studying to become a teacher of Spanish, has visited Mexico and Costa Rica and plans a trip to Spain.

    Being proud of where you came from is a good thing. Being proud to live in America and want her to be better is also a good thing. In the end we are individuals and the some of many things ancestral and contemporary, genetic and environmental, introspective and extrospective. This is also good.

  • SailAway

    Ooops, I am getting tired, I meant to say “the sum of…”. :-)

  • SailAway

    @Augie and others

    Take care. I’ve got to go for a while. I hope we all can keep it civil on the forum. I think all of us want what we believe is best for our country.

    Let’s work together to defeat BHO in 2012! Maybe the next guy will suck, but we know it will be bad if BHO stays. At least we can try again with someone new. I think more people are engaged in the process than in the past and if they stay engaged after the election maybe together we can do a better job holding the new guy’s feet (and other vital parts) to the fire and try to get some good things accomplished.

    This is the system we have for now, let’s try to get it working better before we trash it altogether.

    What do you say folks, let’s defeat the BHO agenda this year!

    Good night all.

  • http://www.indigenecommunity.info Douglas Jack

    Sorry, I made the mistake of thinking a post of mine was removed when I was just a sloppy searcher and didn’t find it right in front of me.

    • Billy Malone

      If you guys would use an Avatar it would make it so much easier to find your posts

  • Surfisher

    @Augie — re: your post on March 17, 2012 at 1:52 am

    This offensive diatribe shows the difference b/w you and me.
    ——————————————————–

    Your ONLY concern is with “your people” — US Citizens that are Latinos, Native Americans; brown, black, yellow, etc. (per your other posts) — while displaying hatred, and total lack of concern, for the REST of US Citizens that are WHITE! You transfer the “sins of the fathers to their sons”, and use this nonsensical cliche to bash all white Americans NOW!

    I do not proclaim you to be a Racist — by your own statements, Logic does.

    As if this was not offensive enough — you proceed to justify by sophism the “reasons” why US Citizens should accept the 12+ Million Undocumented Illegal Mexicans as a boon!
    ——————————————————-

    In contrast with you, MY concern is that ALL US Citizens have a say (and their votes are properly counted)— not only the ones that match my skin color!
    ——————————————————

    Here is my conclusion:

    Augie, you are a divisive Latino Activist (caring only to spread your ‘color-coded’ propaganda). You care not a whit about the rest of Americans. You have no concerns that these 12+ Million Illegal Mexicans are taking away jobs from USA Citizens (the teenagers, the poor, the old!) — because, according to you, they are “your Latino people” and should be here!
    ——————————————————-

    Have you traveled the world — do you know what 12+ Million people mean in actual numbers?

    Take the nation of Sweden (9+ Million people) and add the nation of Latvia (2+ Million people) = about 12+ Million people (men, women and children). If all these people were transferred to the USA, leaving these two European Nations empty of people — than you can perceive the enormity!

    But if they ALL came here from Europe as Illegals — you’ll scream “bloody murder”, since they are White and not Latinos!

    • Augie

      @Surfisher,
      I’m done with you.
      and anyone who agrees with any of your blatant propaganda.
      You pick and choose single words out of an argument and then spew them out of context as if they were true.
      I asked you where you were when my people were being clubbed and your answer was all americans deserve to have their votes counted!
      BUT YOU DON’T CARE UNLESS IT IS YOUR PEOPLE! Don’t you even try to claim you are right! You are vindictive, selective and self-righteous!
      And you don’t even read the posts completely!!!!
      Did you not read that my grandfather and father were both born in the United States and yet I was declared mexican because I was born there? AND I MIGHT ADD THAT MY FATHER WAS IN THE DIPLOMATIC SERVICE!!!
      You do NOT care about all Americans! Not the native americans and not the black americans and NOT EVEN the WHITE Americans! You only care about your petty rights and privileges!
      I don’t have any preference for latinos except that they as well as the blacks and the chinese were used by people by you to serve to make them wealthy!
      You buy into propaganda and myth and take no care to properly research your statements OR your videos.
      ***
      By contrast, I attack lies, propaganda and misleading statements.
      Let anyone who cares about truth count the misquotes, lies and lines out of context in your post and decide for themselves.
      You don’t care about my people. NOT the mexicans! MY people! The american nations you raped and pillaged and tried to commit genocide upon!
      You confirm your father’s evil by the way you twist truth in order to make those who agree with you cheer! And while my people helped yours when they came to this land full of disease, greed and injustice they repaid us with lies, false promises and murder.
      And now you call me mexican. not because mexicans are bad but because among your people they are the scapegoats of an economy rooted in greed and deceit!
      And you talk about 23 million people as if you knew them! I DO know them. I have been to Asia, Russia, Afganistan and Africa while on duty and to Israel, Italy, France and Sweden while on liberty! I know them and I know this also: they would hear you spout your venom and they too would be revulsed by you.
      You act as if you had personal knowledge of the world but I would wager you don’t even have a first hand knowledge of the United States! I do. I have been all across this beautiful land and I hate to see it raped like you and your kind have done for more than four hundred years!
      Look what you did to the buffalo! To the eagle! To the salmon! To the alligator!
      ***
      When your candidate loses – and he will lose – it will be because of followers like you! And he did not have to lose. He has many good ideas.
      And you did not have to hate me. You only hate me because I refuse to follow you like a lemming off a cliff!
      YOU IMPUDENT IGNORANT SCOUNDREL!
      I’m done with you!
      And for the record the difference between you and me is that you don’t care about truth and I do.
      REMEMBER that I attacked the things you said while you attacked me. And I reacted to your classification of me into someone I’m not. And your response was not to correct the things you saw as untrue but to attack me as a liar. So be it.
      Remember this: I fought and nearly died so that you and your kind could say what you say. And many of my friends and neighbors did the same. Many of them ARE dead for wars we did not want, did not pursue and did not agree with. But your posts to this point show you never did put your life on the line and that speaks volumes.
      Go ahead and vomit another lie in response.
      Let anyone who has sympathy with your record of personal attacks bear witness. I stood for truth and you stood for hate. Of course you WILL SAY IT WAS THE OTHER WAY AROUND!!! That IS how you do things.
      Oh and for anyone neutral, just read back on all the posts to see just how this snake loves to attack persons instead of discussing differences.
      Of course some of you don’t care. @Surfissssssssher is supporting your candidate so anything he says is cool.

      • Billy Malone

        I guess this means you won’t be sending Surfisher a Christmas card this year ??

        • Surfisher

          Billy Malone — LOL!

      • Surfisher

        @Augie — another unsupported diatribe by you….

        It’s getting monotonous exposing your weakness of mind.
        But when I get back from dinner with my wife, I’ll see if I’m in the mood to logically dissect each one of your erroneous statements.

        For the time being I’ll leave you with this — If 12+ Million people came here from Europe as Illegals — you’ll scream “bloody murder”, since they are White and not Latinos!
        ————————————-

        You’ve exposed yourself for what you are — a White People Hater!

        When I come back — I’ll dissect your posts Logically.
        ——————————————————–

        LOL — you may be “done” with me, but I’m not done with you, kid!

        • Billy Malone

          I can’t wait to read it

          • Surfisher

            Billy Malone — LOL….

            Came back from lobster dinner with my better half — since I’m the bad half — and just posted to the white people hater below.

            Enjoy…unless that’s politically incorrect….

            • Billy Malone

              Read like the Injun Joe Lyrics – The Johnnys to me anyhow.

      • Surfisher

        @Augie — re: your post on March 18, 2012 at 7:26 pm

        Firstly, do your parents know where you are…? Just concerned — since your statements are childish.
        ——————————————-

        Dissecting each statement (since you post the following concern: “You pick and choose single words out of an argument and then spew them out of context as if they were true.”
        —————————————————

        1) “I asked you where you were when my people were being clubbed and your answer was all americans deserve to have their votes counted!”

        Logical deduction — I answered: “All Americans deserve to have their vote counted”. Do you disagree? As far as the “where you were when my people were being clubbed” — have not yet seen any clubbings in these elections…so cannot specify my location. And btw — who are ‘your people’?
        ——————————————————–

        2) “BUT YOU DON’T CARE UNLESS IT IS YOUR PEOPLE! Don’t you even try to claim you are right! You are vindictive, selective and self-righteous!”

        Logical deduction — You are absolutely right, that I only care about my people — ALL American Citizens, regardless of color, are the ONLY ones I care at this point. Once our citizens become free again and prosperous, than I’ll accord “freebees” to Foreigners — but NOT before! And I DO CLAIM this to be right!

        As far as your: “You are vindictive, selective and self-righteous!” — I’ll let others judge me (not you, since your position lacks any merit).
        ——————————————————–

        3) “And you don’t even read the posts completely!!!!
        Did you not read that my grandfather and father were both born in the United States and yet I was declared mexican because I was born there? AND I MIGHT ADD THAT MY FATHER WAS IN THE DIPLOMATIC SERVICE!!!”

        This could be described as TRIPE — I read your posts, but it does not necessitate that what you posted is TRUE! You could as well be a 30-year-old pimply Latino “teenager” leaving in your Mum’s basement!
        —————————————————————

        4) “I don’t have any preference for latinos except that they as well as the blacks and the chinese were used by people by you to serve to make them wealthy!
        You buy into propaganda and myth and take no care to properly research your statements OR your videos.”

        Unless you can restate this in clear English — it seems like jumbled words trying to sound “erudite” — pathetic attempt to…bash white again?
        ——————————————————-

        5) “By contrast, I attack lies, propaganda and misleading statements.
        Let anyone who cares about truth count the misquotes, lies and lines out of context in your post and decide for themselves.
        You don’t care about my people. NOT the mexicans! MY people! The american nations you raped and pillaged and tried to commit genocide upon!
        You confirm your father’s evil by the way you twist truth in order to make those who agree with you cheer! And while my people helped yours when they came to this land full of disease, greed and injustice they repaid us with lies, false promises and murder.”

        This is a sickening diatribe — shows you up as a brainwashed White People Hater — one that cares naught for USA, but for his ‘color-coded’ agenda only!
        ————————————————————

        6) Now I have to condense the rest of your post — since it truly becomes ad hoc idiocy on your part!

        One can read the entirety of what follows by going to the original post (March 18, 2012 at 7:26 pm).

        Augie states:

        …”You don’t care about my people. NOT the mexicans! MY people! The american nations you raped and pillaged and tried to commit genocide upon! You confirm your father’s evil by the way you twist truth in order to make those who agree with you cheer! And while my people helped yours when they came to this land full of disease, greed and injustice they repaid us with lies, false promises and murder….”

        “…And you talk about 23 million people as if you knew them!”

        “I know them and I know this also: they would hear you spout your venom and they too would be revulsed by you.”

        “I have been all across this beautiful land and I hate to see it raped like you and your kind have done for more than four hundred years!”

        “Remember this: I fought and nearly died so that you and your kind could say what you say. And many of my friends and neighbors did the same. Many of them ARE dead for wars we did not want, did not pursue and did not agree with. But your posts to this point show you never did put your life on the line and that speaks volumes. Go ahead and vomit another lie in response.”
        ——————————————————–

        Anyone can be a HERO on the internet — I’ll stand by my original conclusion of you:

        You are nothing but a Latino Activist — who hates white Americans and post propaganda to this effect!

        Now, I’m DONE with you, kid!

        • Billy Malone

          A little welcomed constructive criticism ?????????????

          I don’t think so

          • Surfisher

            LOL

            Should be grateful for at least one thing we gave them — soap….

  • Sheila

    The fact that the other three GOP candidates go along with election fraud, shows me that they can’t be trusted and I wouldn’t want them to run this country. No matter what candidate you are for, you have to know it’s not right what they’re doing to Ron Paul. John McCain said on national TV that they have accepted Ron Paul into their party. Now they turn their back on him? They shouldn’t have accepted him if they were going to do this to him. All American citizens should be outraged and fighting for our right to vote. This is disgraceful to our country and to the Republican Party. The media, and even Obama should be fighting against this. Where are all the American citizens? They fight for everything else but nobody is protesting this?

    • http://www.indigenecommunity.info Douglas Jack

      Sheila, Welcome to the shell (there is nothing inside) game. Ron Paul is a wonderful voice of reason in this madness who is organizing the voices of millions of active duty soldiers and veterans as well as common citizen for peace, order and good government. There are some essential elements which Dr. Paul doesn’t seem to understand, but he is totally right in his experience and analysis that; the US, Canada and NATO countries as colonial (We seek to impose our own order rather than align with and learn from others) powers find it totally easy to invade other countries, but totally daunting to communicate with each other about our own political culture. We have invaded and subverted over 250 governments around the world in addition to the 150 nations we have dealt with through genocide in just North America (Turtle Island) during the last 200 years. War is the core of colonial business.

      Our ongoing (this are the blueprints on which we are built) colonial problem is not understanding the Economic Democracy found in the Production Societies of our ‘indigenous’ (Latin = ‘self-generating’) ancestors (including the indigenous Celtic peoples of Europe) worldwide. Indigenous peoples worldwide organized within the Extended home structures (privacy with common services) where both men and women were organized into specialized Production Societies as: accountants, healers, clothes makers/repair, dwelling maker/repair, polyculture orchard keeper, food preparers/processors/servers/cleaners, child/elder/handicapped interactive animation, wisdom-keepers. The progressive ownership from youth to elder in the Production Societies as well as ‘caucusing’ (‘grouping of like-interests) accounted for through the string-shell accounting media recognized everyone as investors, owners and responsible creators or consumers. These building blocks of recognition within specialties, ownership and decision-making empowered individuals both verbally and gesturally to positively influence their multihome-buildings, communities, regions, nations, confederacies and continents.

      Hence Economic Democracy is the primary ‘democratic’ (Greek ‘power of the people’) process with Political Democracy (Extended-home, Village etc councils) as a secondary or subset. It is not possible to repair or bandaid the subset without attending to personal, professional and community empowerment in the primary set of human organization. https://sites.google.com/site/indigenecommunity/relational-economy/8-economic-democracy

  • RON PAUL 2012

    People around the Nation need to wake up….It’s time for America to get back on it’s feet. We cannot do that if we don’t vote for Ron Paul! He is the CLEAR choice here and if people don’t see that, they’re fools, they’re the reason why we have people in office like Osama Obama.